O2 new tariff to compete with 3 and t-mobile

[hecatae]

O2 have launched a new tariff called on and on available from £36 for new customers and £26 for existing to compete with the one plan from 3 and the full monty from t-mobile

Unlimited calls (unclear yet as to which definition of unlimited they are using)
Unlimited texts
1GB of data

http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs

Sim only 12 month version is £26 a month

[solo12002]

Sorry this is an attemp and only an attemp to match other networks inculding three. Cant say I am inpreesed as o2 view of unlimted is not what anyone elses view is. only during the last few months did their unlimted texts take a limted limt of 2999 textx, so I cant see this plan being any better.

As for data sorry o2 you still have a limt on it of 1GB or 2GB, From were I am on the three one plane sim only deal O2s new plan is crap. Yes I have a limt of 2000 Mins and limted of 5000 mins 3 to three butt its clear and I know were I stand and their unlimted data is tottaly unlimted.

[Ben]

Do we think that this is more of a retention deal, then? Filling a gap in the lineup, albeit not particularly well?

[Wilt]

I wonder if Vodafone will respond, they're the only ones without an unlimited calls plan at the moment.

Are we seeing the advantages for consumers of the drop in termination rates here?

[Hands0n]

This new tariff by O2, called "On and On", does nothing much to compete with Three, T-Mobile or even giffgaff where the competition is not minutes and texts but mobile data of the dictionary-definition unlimited type. Instead O2 have gone for unlimited voice minutes and text messages while retaining the meagre 1GB data cap of their other tariffs.

For sure, this will meet a particular market demand, but it is in no meaningful way supportive of smartphone technology in 2012 and on.

[Wilt]

To be quite honest, I don't want o2 to attempt unlimited data plans like those offered by Three and T-Mobile.

Just imagine the state of the network after a few months! It would be a disaster.

[3GScottishUser]

To be quite honest, I don't want o2 to attempt unlimited data plans like those offered by Three and T-Mobile.

Just imagine the state of the network after a few months! It would be a disaster.

I don't understand how O2 offering unlimited data would be any more of a disaster than either 3 or T-Mobile. They have just as much bandwidth to do so as either and coverage in most major centres of population including 900MHz that neither 3 or T-Mobile can compete with. I think the reason O2 don't offer unlimited data is the same as Vodafone's and that is the decision to focus on quality of service, giving alll users a decent experience and not attempting to appeal to massive data users or those who want to replace fixed line with 3G. O2 don't seem to be suffering any major loss of customers to date and they have remained the UK's most satisfied customers for a very long time. The constant moans about coverage and data speeds etc made about O2 are not reflected in any business metrics and those are what really count.

Meanwhile I notice T-Mobile are now advertising a totally unlimited voice, data and SMS deal for business at £36 a month inc a free smartphone.

[Wilt]

If O2 were trying to focus on 'quality of service' they wouldn't be throttling 2G voice bandwidth down so much that it often sounds like you're talking to a dalek when talking to somebody on O2.

The bottom line is that O2 don't have the network infrastructure to support an unlimited data offering. If they could offer it, they would. There is absolutely no reason why they would choose to handicap their own marketing like this. Three and T-Mobile, on the other hand, are able to support unlimited data plans as their network was designed to do it. And despite predictions of a network meltdown, there have been no widespread congestion issues.

A simple comparison of the number of 3G cells is enough to make it obvious that the O2 3G network lacks the capacity of the MBNL network.

While I do understand that O2 are doing well in terms of business metrics, I think it's completely fair to judge O2 solely on their efforts as a 3G network provider on a 3G forum.

[Hands0n]

I don't understand how O2 offering unlimited data would be any more of a disaster than either 3 or T-Mobile. They have just as much bandwidth to do so as either and coverage in most major centres of population including 900MHz that neither 3 or T-Mobile can compete with. .

O2's problem is nothing to do with the airtime. If it were they'd be leaders in mobile data provision. The simple fact is that they are not. Instead, they are stuck with a legacy network of back haul and core that cannot cope. Their HSPA+ airtime is squandered on an infrastructure that has been allowed to become congested and significantly limited of bandwidth. All the airtime in China cannot mitigate against that.

The other problem that O2 face is that their coverage is all about 2G. Remember, they have been censured not once but twice by OFCOM for not meeting the terms of their 3G licence. They still have not. And so their 3G/HSPA is patchy and inconsistent. The quality and availability in London and the South East is legendarily bad. Their coverage maps are a work of fiction befitting Enid Blyton herself.

Whenever I travel around the UK with my array of SIMs I find that O2 are the first to drop off the map (I don't count Orange simply because I refuse to entertain their ghastly network and tariffs - they push O2 into 2nd from bottom in terms of 3G availability and performance).

So how is that for "quality of service" then?

[3GScottishUser]

Whenever I travel around the UK with my array of SIMs I find that O2 are the first to drop off the map (I don't count Orange simply because I refuse to entertain their ghastly network and tariffs - they push O2 into 2nd from bottom in terms of 3G availability and performance).

So how is that for "quality of service" then?

Perhaps.....but O2 no longer sell anything but smartphones on contracts and they have the largest user base of any of the pre EE merger single networks. Are they making a rod for their own back? Does not look like it as they keep coming top of the charts for customer satisfaction and fewest complaints. The two factors don't really compute especially in an era when many users expect data on the move. Where one wonders is all the negative comment and desertion of O2 by smartphone users starved of services envious of others enjoying ACYE etc?

Lack of backhall, infrastructure? Surely not! 02 have a National Broadband network based on Fibre technology and were one of the first to offer unlimited wired consumer services, so I'm sure they know what it takes to provide this. Can't imagine for a moment that Telefonica UK, a world class telco, with a massive business customer base which continues to win huge contracts for mobile services don't have or are the process of delivering anything less than their competitors. I suspect the ACYE customer is one that both Vodafone and O2 have chosen not to target. They may be forced to eventually but for now their lack of such an offering has not harmed their key business stats.

I have lived through the mobile take-up, digital (GSM) development, UMTS and now HSPA/HSPA+/LTE and often it's the tortoise that wins the race. For all the comment by data priority users, most of whom don't use O2, they seem to be holding their own and gradually improving their provison whilst loooking after their biggest asset, their customers, unlike some of the others who have made sprint after sprint only to fall.

[solo12002]

Some good points being rasied here. However O2 are still mising the point 1 GB of data is not enought when using for tethering to other devices and PCs and that I feel is what a lot of smartphone and table users want. Further more o2 in all sense is notthing more than an O2 network as one of the other fourm members have pointed out, within Northern Ireland their 3G coverage is crap tottally crap and I have traveled around Edinburgh, Newcatle Upon Tyne to find no 3G coverage in most places or droping to Edge and at times GPRS.

Yes a lot of ppl use O2 most I know are on PAYG for the free o2 to o2 calls and text not for anything else.

Oh sorry for edit but is o2 un and on unlimted?? well it looks like they doing a T - Mobile and not being tottally clear as to what they mean: "@Catherine There is an excessive usage policy in place. It's there to stop a few customers affecting a lot. We’ll contact people long before they reach it." taken from the o2 blog:


http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/03/go-on-and-on-with-our-best-ever-tariff.html

[hecatae]

if you read o2's terms and conditions it gives no limit, it just suggests "detrimental to the network"

[Ben]

Creepily I've just rechecked the Canterbury coverage off the back of this thread and O2 have only gone and rolled out 3G900! The whole of Canterbury should now have accessible 3G on an iPhone 4S.

Given the geography here, O2 suddenly looks to be the best network for me. But I'll still need a Boost Box. Ahhhh...

[hecatae]

just checked http://status.o2.co.uk got coverage in my area too, may order that £7.50 Tesco Mobile deal thats hot on hukd

[Ben]

Mhmm. The tariff may be a bit lacklustre, this eruption of 3G900 is rather interesting! Go, good people of Talk3G, and check your coverage!

[Hands0n]

Well, O2 still sucketh here, 220m from their HSPA mast where I am drawing the stupendous speed of, wait for it, 2.2Mbps down and 1.3 Mbps up. The H symbol that indicates HSPA is showing on the handset (and the engineering menu). I am overawed at the speed ... not! This is from O2's brand new, less than a year old, UMTS mast that they popped up, the second in a town of over 35,000 people, after the better part of eight years of a single mast. I suppose they thought they were doing us all a favour by giving us 2G/EDGE for all of these years.

O2's success is on their various propositions and freebies. They may very well be selling only smartphones on contract now (I don't subscribe to that yet), but that is a fairly recent development. Without question, if people are buying O2 smartphones - particularly in the South East - and are experiencing what I and plenty of others see in the SE and London area then they will be sorely disappointed. Coupled with long contract times, 18 and 24 months being the norm these days, these customers will be blighted until either O2 finally cough up some decent coverage and true bandwidth or LTE just in time for the contract end.

O2 may very well have some good in the ground fibre courtesy of their BE acquisition but that does not mean that they are employing it out to their transmitter masts. And even if they are, there is still the bijoux matter of their network core. Ping times across the O2 network are, like Vodafone, very indicative of heavily congested and convoluted network designs. These are not terribly difficult to remedy but are rather expensive to do so. Then there is whatever peering relationship they have with the Tier 1 Internet providers such as Linx. Again, if these are saturated then the effect is the same, it matters not a jot how much airtime bandwidth or frequency they have, the whole idea is to access the Internet and with congested back hauls, network cores and peering links the chances of a good quality service are slim.

Why aren't people complaining about O2 wholesale? My money is on the reasoning that they users are calls and text customers with little to no mobile data use on featurephones. The smartphone users either do not know what they're missing or are biding their time until they can jump network.

This year, 2012, will see unprecedented demand for mobile data on the go, and I'm sorry people but WiFi just will not cut it. We have several major events this year, ahead of the predicted apocalypse, that will see people wanting to watch out and about. Those fortunate enough to have accommodating mobile data deals will win out.

NB: I forgot to mention O2's image compression, it is horrible! Why, if O2 really do have so much network infrastructure, do they need to compress still images being sent to devices (handsets, laptops, tablets etc.) across their 3G/HSPA+ network? This is massively intrusive technology that adds latency while ruining images retrieved via the network.

[Ben]

Got to say though, Hands0n, a couple of mbps and HSPA+ is VASTLY better than non-working data connectivity or no signal at all (as I currently experience in and around Canterbury). Vodafone could take note. I'd kill to just have dependable signal right now.

[Hands0n]

True enough Ben, if only the O2 signal were even close to that which is available from the other operators. As soon as I start moving around I'm back to 2G/EDGE and its game over. Last year we drove to South Wales, I had Vodafone and Three signal almost all the way. O2 was up and down like the proverbial *****'s drawers. Trying to use Google Nav was impossible on O2, while being completely functional on the other two networks.

Dependable signal? - with O2 if you can find it and don't have to move about then you're in with a chance. Unless, that is, there are more than three of you wanting to use the local mast at the same time!

[Ben]

Ah, memories. I'm pretty sure O2 won't work out. But I'm going to give it a look. Desperation!

[3GScottishUser]

Sorry guys, I simply can't buy the notion that O2's customers are not data savvy and using their products differently from other network providers. Wasn't O2 the network that lauched the iPhone, credited for the explosion of interest in mobile applications and data?

I don't actually use O2 but have a SIM and right from the launch their coverage in Glasgow and surrouning area has been as good as the rest. Now in my area I have O2 900GSM, 900 3G and 2100 3G with solid voice and data coverage.

Another consideration, what about those 3 million Tesco Mobile customers? Lots of them have been picking up iPhone bargains and yet there is no evidence of substantial dissatisfaction about their network performance...... that along with O2's own very low complaint stats convinces me that O2 have coverage where it really matters and have managed demand and service provison better than most of their competitors.

[solo12002]

"Wasn't O2 the network that lauched the iPhone, credited for the explosion of interest in mobile applications and data?" I agree and disagree in parts. Yes o2 lauched the Iphone, but again dint loads of o2 users leave the network as soon as they could due to the crap network and sppeed?


As for credited for the explosion of interest in mobile applications cant answer that one but I think Three started the data ball rolling even in their walled garden at the start and data?

" Now in my area I have O2 900GSM, 900 3G and 2100 3G with solid voice and data coverage" All I can say on this is Im delighted for you, in Northern Ireland were I live thier checker also shows I get all of this but in realy life I go from 3G in some areas, then down to Edge and then to GPRS if fact this moring I was left with no coverage on 02 and had to use my three contact phone.


Hands on I tottaly agree that that "WIFI will not cut it more sore for o2 users who dont have free wifi and I agree with " My money is on the reasoning that they users are calls and text customers with little to no mobile data use on featurephones" A lot of young ppl on O2 use O2 only for the free o2 calls and texts which allows them to contact other o2 users free as long as they meet the top up required.

At the end of the day my view is that o2 should be ashamed of having a crap 3G coverage given they were one of the first mobile networks set up in the UK and they should be ashamed of calling 1 or 2 GB of data unlimted never mind unlimted calls and text which o2 state on their blog have a fair use limt. Lets not forget even on o2 pay as you go unlimted calls and texts O2 have pissed every one off by bringing in a fair use policy of 2999 calls and texts as hightlighted on their fourm.

[Ben]

All interesting stuff. In fact, I think, as I've had a clean break from O2 for ~2 years, I'll do a write-up of my experiences with the iPhone 4S some time next week. Will be a lot of SIM-swapping (irritating) until I decide whether to port or not, but it'd be nice to see if that 'million pounds a day' O2 have been investing since I left them has actually made a perceivable difference.

[solo12002]

Ben


Was their a reason why you ruled out three business, for your use?

[3GScottishUser]

Three for business?

Not a runner for most businesses because 3 don't have fallback to 2G in many areas which is still mission critical for most companies.

Data is possibly fine but 1st priority for business is likely to be voice communication, perhaps e-mail via blackberry for some but a 3G only network is not an option even with the claimed coverage now. 2100Mhz still has issues in towns and cities penetrating buildings so safer to have GSM coverage or even bettter have a network that can offer 900Mhz 2/3G, 180Mhz GSM and 2100Mhz 3G.

[Ben]

Was their a reason why you ruled out three business, for your use?
The only thing stopping me switching our mobile subscriptions to Three (we have already moved all our data ones) is that they won't give me a Home Signal box, so I can't use it at home.

[Hands0n]

Three for business?

Not a runner for most businesses because 3 don't have fallback to 2G in many areas which is still mission critical for most companies.



It really all depends on where you are, as with ALL mobile networks. If you were in London, the South East and Kent you'd have little trouble with Three's network for Voice, Text and mobile data. I'd say exactly the same for the M4 corridor (basis my own practical experience last year) and a lot of South Wales! And in that same area of coverage with Three you'd be pushing your luck to get a consistent coverage and quality with O2.




Data is possibly fine but 1st priority for business is likely to be voice communication, perhaps e-mail via blackberry for some but a 3G only network is not an option even with the claimed coverage now. 2100Mhz still has issues in towns and cities penetrating buildings so safer to have GSM coverage or even bettter have a network that can offer 900Mhz 2/3G, 180Mhz GSM and 2100Mhz 3G.

Actually, depending upon the business, you'll likely find that Data has at least an equal priority these days to voice, with text bringing up the rear.

Then again, the Three network of 2011/12 is vastly different to what it was in 2003. The MBNL venture has paid off and coverage and building penetration are of generally high quality and availability. Again, there are exceptions to this of course, but that is also true with all of the radio frequencies - far too much is being made of the lower frequencies like they're some kind of magic bullet. They are not.


But returning back to topic, we've drifted yet again, O2's On and On tariff does not take on T-Mobile's The Full Monty or Three's The One Plan in anything but voice minutes and texts.

[3GScottishUser]

I think for very sound reasons O2 and Vodafone have chosen not to get involved in the unlimited data proposition for now. They have probably done research to determine what sort of customers it attracts and how those might affect the overall quality of service they can provide to their user base which includes a substantial proportion of business clients.

I don't think there is any doubt that 900Mhz is vastly more robust than 2100Mhz otherwise what is all the fuss from 3 UK about having 850Mhz bandwidth guaranteed in the forthcoming spectrum auction?

In my area 3 is still less reliable for voice and text than networks with 2G fallback.

[Hands0n]

The "very sound reasons" for O2 and Vodafone not offering dictionary-definition unlimited is that their networks simply cannot support such a proposition. If they could, they would.

Their 900Mhz and 850Mhz may well be able to punch through 50' of solid steel but what is the point when the data has a challenge passing across routers, switches, firewalls, proxies, image compressors, high latency circuits and all manner of other legacy construction that was fine for GPRS/EDGE but shows its very evident weaknesses with the higher speed airtime delivery apparent in 3G/HSPA.

Goodness only knows what the network performance will be with LTE if they don't completely update their infrastructure. If they graft LTE on to their incumbent IP networks it will be disastrous for them. The customer experience will be dreadful.

900Mhz has attributes that appeal for signal propagation over and above the higher frequencies of 2100Mhz. But that does not make it more "robust". There are downsides to a lower frequency also, these relate to capacity of the radio wave itself. So there are plusses and minuses to both. Far too much is made of 2100Mhz weakness to penetrate buildings, both frequencies may be constrained with modern day thermal insulation materials for example. Without knowing the specifics of an individual situation it is dangerous to apply a one-size-fits-all analysis to why 2100Mhz may be inferior to 900Mhz.

Of course, I cannot speak for Three, but if it were me I would want an equal playing field and so redistribution of the lower frequencies makes entire sense. We are not only talking about private businesses but national infrastructure as essential these days as are water and energy distribution and availability.

[solo12002]

But returning back to topic, we've drifted yet again, O2's On and On tariff does not take on T-Mobile's The Full Monty or Three's The One Plan in anything but voice minutes and texts.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that.

[hecatae]

now available on o2 business too, http://blog.o2.co.uk/home/2012/04/o2-launches-on-on-with-unlimited-tariffs-for-uk-small-business.html