iPhone 4S - Buy or not?

[Ben]

So the iPhone 4S is announced, and from Friday pre-orders will begin. But will you be buying one? Please vote in the poll and leave a message below with your logic. Thanks!

[Ben]

Thanks to gorilla for suggesting a poll! If I've missed any likely answers let me know :)

I'm upgrading from the iPhone 4. I work my iPhones hard, and I could use all the power I can get. I also have someone who wants my iPhone 4, which makes the decision to upgrade a little easier. I think iOS 5 on a dual-core processor is going to fly, plus the expectation is that there'll be the fabled 1GB RAM on board? Mmmmm.

[Hands0n]

The chances are that I will upgrade to the 4S - but at this time my intentions are not to because it simply does not give me the big jump in technology that I was after or hoping for. Of course, that may all change because I have made this statement before :)

[gorilla]

As I said in the other thread, I wont be buying this phone. However, if I did have the iPhone 4 and knowing how much you can sell them for I would be upgrading.

There are really only two things that keep me away from the iPhone: "free" tethering and being able to download the odd file.

[Ben]

Looks like it's just me so far!

Got the bumper off today. What a difference. I'd forgotten what a stunning piece of design the iPhone 4 is. Also how thin it is. the screen seems so much bigger and 'on the surface' without all that extra bulk the bumper adds.

Think I'll stick to the leather slip case for a while so I can fondle it naked in all its glory :p

[miffed]

I am going to get one , but I am not going to rush out or queue up for it - all in good time.

I think the lack of Siri on the IP4 helped me make this decision ! although I doubt I'll ever use it other than to see how it works.

I really , really , wish they had dropped the glass back though and replaced it with something else. I hate cases !

[blush]

Before I commit I need to know if the phone can pull in signal better than the 4.My work phone a Blackberry 9300 is on the same network as my iPhone and I quite frequently have far better signal on the blackberry. I also agree with miffed about the glass, I hate cases but it's a necessity to get signal and to protect the glass. I really am undecided, could be a long evening of working out if the pros outweigh the cons!

Someone on another forum said the "s" in 4S stands for signal!

[Hands0n]

Someone on another forum said the "s" in 4S stands for signal!

Nah. The S stands for Steve :D

[DaveC]

;) No - it stands for "suckers"

[miffed]

Makes sense ! (Galaxy S, Galaxy S2 , Desire S , Wildfire S , Nexus S)

;)

[Craig]

Pre-Order confirmed :D

16GB - White

Now need to sell my Iphone 4 :p

[blush]

32gb white for me, I'm a sucker cos I want signal!

[Ben]

LoL @ the two posts above me! :D

Well, just ordered mine - white 64GB. The capacity bump is a welcome improvement, I'm down to my last few GB and the fibre should hopefully be going in this month so I'll soon be rumbling through that!

Did anyone pick up on the 32GB model actually being cheaper than the iPhone 4 was? I paid £613 I think for the white iPhone 4 32GB, and it's now £599 in its 4S incarnation.

The 64GB at £699 though. Blimey. Second most expensive SIM-Free I've ever bought.

Really looking forward to the improved camera. iOS loves dual-core on the iPad so that could be a massive pro too, but just as with 3G to 3GS it'll not be evident until I get my hands on it because the 4 is no slouch.

[DaveC]

Makes sense ! (Galaxy S, Galaxy S2 , Desire S , Wildfire S , Nexus S)

;)

Yep, they have all got you where they want you!

[Craig]

I went with the 16Gb because I always have done and generally it's enough for me :)

+

You will get 5Gb of free Icloud :D

Friday can't come soon enough now!!!

Iv been with O2 since the original iPhone in 2007 but does anyone think I should move to 3? Which UK network will provide the best / new speeds the 4S offers?

[Ben]

I think you should move to Three without a doubt :D But that really depends how happy you are with O2... and what Three coverage is like in your area.

iPhone 4S is what, 14.4mbps? I'd have thought Three would have the most extensive coverage at that speed but I can't be sure. Nowhere on O2's site can I see anything that says the maximum speeds :/

I really need to get my hands on an O2 SIM and see if they've deployed any 3G900 around Canterbury...

[Ben]

Looks like the 4S pre-order has, basically, sold out: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/07/new-international-iphone-4s-pre-orders-through-apple-slip-to-1-2-week-shipping/

[blush]

I really need to get my hands on an O2 SIM and see if they've deployed any 3G900 around Canterbury...

I can save you the bother Ben and assure you that the 3G on O2 in Canterbury is pathetic. I get some round Wincheap and then it gets patchy in the centre, ends just after the West station. Just as bad as Vodafone really and on your average day the 3G might be down.

The 3g900 signal in Central London is also pretty hit and miss. I work at Blackfriars several times a week and can go from fast Internet one minute to Edge to GPRS to no signal at all most days.

I get good 3G signal with Three most of the time in Central London but find the data to either be slow or pauses a lot. I notice that with a PAYG sim on Three you are limited to a maximum download of 2.9Mb/s anyway. It's in the terms.

[Ben]

Ah, thank you blush! Greatly appreciated :)

Yes I've noticed some fluctuation in speeds on Three in central London. But hey, at least there's plenty of 3G - Vodafone has let me down many a time :(

Alas, looks like Vodafone is still my best option.

[Craig]

Thanks for the replys guys, that's particulary interesting about the speed limit with 3 on payg (that's how I would be using it).

I will need to try and find out if O2 impose a speed limit.

I'm happy with my O2 coverage but I also know that 3 have just as good coverage in my area.

[blush]

I really find it unbelievable how O2 and Vodafone have such poor 3G, I work as a comms engineer for the railway and spend slot of time driving round the South East. Large parts of South East London have no 3G coverage on O2 in massively built up areas of population. Lots of people own smartphones and to use a smartphone you require a 3G connection and so the customers on the networks that lack 3G will either put up with the slower edge or GPRS or change network.

These networks are idiots to themselves really. As an example Canterbury which is stuffed to the brim with foreign tourist and students year round, having extensive 3G in Canterbury would pay off and bring in lots of revenue. Your average foreign tourist can manually select networks and I know when I go on holiday I usually try all the available networks to find the best 3G signal. :o

I noticed when I was at City Thameslink station last week that O2 have a Nokia basestation with a leaky feeder the entire length of the station to give an underground Edge signal, good for calls but not data. T-mobile however have about three basestations in an electrical substation at City Thameslink. I don't have a T-mobile sim but I imagine that looking at the gear they provide underground 3G. Pity the other networks don't have a presence here.

http://s4.postimage.org/2xeoa4zqc/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2xeoa4zqc/)
http://s4.postimage.org/2xgbthhic/tmobile.jpg (http://postimage.org/image/2xgbthhic/)

I have gone a bit off topic :o

[Hands0n]

@blush - You've pretty much confirmed my own direct experience of O2's network in the South East London and North Kent. It is, in a word, pathetic. And is also the primary reason that I left O2 as soon as I possibly could, having my iPhone 3G unlocked and moving to Vodafone, that gave the first consistent level of 3G that smartphone ever held.

[blush]

@hands0n, to be honest though I don't find Vodafone much better! Certainly in East Sussex and the Medway Valley Vodafone is or rather two years ago was rubbish. Voadfone's tariffs and website in general has never appealed to me. I find the website awful to navigate round and can never find a straight answer.

Getting back to @craig, I think if Three gives you good coverage then you should switch networks. I am pretty sure I am going to give o2 the boot, its good for 2g voice but not for data. I hold BT responsible for selling to Telefonica!

[Ben]

Oh blush, that picture, it's borderline pornography! :D Thanks :D

You're spot on about Canterbury. With all the tourists and foreign students, and domestic students needing broadband for that matter, we should be 3G'd up to the nines! Why don't the mobile operators see the opportunity? It befuddles me. They can't earn where they have no network.

[Craig]

@blush

Both O2 and 3 give me about the same coverage.

The one thing I have found out is that on payg 3 give you 150mb and O2 give you 500mb

I can't really find any definitive answer to if O2 cap payg speeds

[blush]

Oh blush, that picture, it's borderline pornography! :D Thanks :D
I must admit I was overjoyed to discover the basestations, from the photos and from what I remember the external connections were all BT NTU's and were only 2Mb so no good for 3g anyway, the two right most basetations in the second photo are Airwave so probably for the emergency services. I like the labels stuck on the front so the networks can identify thier equipment!



You're spot on about Canterbury. With all the tourists and foreign students, and domestic students needing broadband for that matter, we should be 3G'd up to the nines! Why don't the mobile operators see the opportunity? It befuddles me. They can't earn where they have no network.

I could understand some smaller towns not having 3g but with Canterbury I just don't understand. Every day of the week the main street from Westgate up is rammed with every nationality imaginable wanting to use their phones. O2 said recently they plan to install a 3g900 basestation at the site of every 2g base, by the time if they do get round to this everyone other than a few 2g users will have moved away. They really should have massively invested whilst the iphone was exclusive to them, instead of taking the money and doing little.

[miffed]

Canterbury eh ? No signals ......yet two Orange shops and 3 Carphone Warehouses , go figure ?

[blush]

@blush

Both O2 and 3 give me about the same coverage.

The one thing I have found out is that on payg 3 give you 150mb and O2 give you 500mb

I can't really find any definitive answer to if O2 cap payg speeds

I found the download limit on Three's PAYG terms and conditions recently when someone on twitter noticed the change with the August 11 amendment. I have just looked at the terms and conditions with my eyes watering and cant find it now. I know from my own experience I used to get up to 5mb/s and recently never more than 2.8mb/s

I havent seen and mention of o2 limiting the speed for PAYG users, it's not to say they don't though. If you do a speed test what do you get? Are you on PAYG with o2?

[DBMandrake]

I notice that with a PAYG sim on Three you are limited to a maximum download of 2.9Mb/s anyway. It's in the terms.
Where did you see that ? Must be new, as I don't remember seeing anything like that when I joined Three in 2009.

I wonder if it also affects grandfathered plans like 3pay, which I'm still on.

[blush]

Where did you see that ? Must be new, as I don't remember seeing anything like that when I joined Three in 2009.

I wonder if it also affects grandfathered plans like 3pay, which I'm still on.

I can't find the actual term and condition now but it was highlighted on a forum I was reading recently. I just found that footnote 15 on the price guide mentions a limit of 2.8Mb/s on HSDPA but that is for PAYG MBB rather than a PAYG sim. In my experience I used to get better speeds than I do now. Fair enough during peak periods but I used to get around 4-5Mb in the middle of the night but can't ever get anything like that now.

Do you get good speed test results?

[Craig]

I found the download limit on Three's PAYG terms and conditions recently when someone on twitter noticed the change with the August 11 amendment. I have just looked at the terms and conditions with my eyes watering and cant find it now. I know from my own experience I used to get up to 5mb/s and recently never more than 2.8mb/s

I havent seen and mention of o2 limiting the speed for PAYG users, it's not to say they don't though. If you do a speed test what do you get? Are you on PAYG with o2?

Yeah I'm with O2 on payg, the tariff I am on gives you 500mb of 3G everytime you top up, I have not topped up in a while so I can't do a speed test right now :/

[Ben]

AT&T have sold 200,000 iPhones on pre-order in just 12 hours, making this the most successful iPhone launch yet: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/07/att-alone-sees-200000-iphone-4s-preorders-in-first-12-hours/

Quite incredible that such substantial demand is out there.

[Wilt]

AT&T have sold 200,000 iPhones on pre-order in just 12 hours, making this the most successful iPhone launch yet: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/07/att-alone-sees-200000-iphone-4s-preorders-in-first-12-hours/

Quite incredible that such substantial demand is out there.

Especially if you consider that this is the first year AT&T have other competition at launch it's incredible that they have managed to have their best ever year. I wonder how many pre-orders the other networks are getting.

Back in the UK, after taking a look at Twitter, it seems o2s plan of not having pre-orders is backfiring spectacularly. I wouldn't like to be in their retentions dept right now...

[Hands0n]

Back in the UK, after taking a look at Twitter, it seems o2s plan of not having pre-orders is backfiring spectacularly. I wouldn't like to be in their retentions dept right now...

What where O2 thinking? Clearly they have no understanding of people in general or their customers in particular.

On the other hand, Three's Twitter channel is full of tales of people trying to pre-order and unable to do so because their website keeps crashing. The pull, it seems, is that the AYCE message is getting across, with ever-increasing numbers of favourable comments about it. Three's marketing of AYCE, especially around the iPhone pre-order page seems to be getting the message across, that for a fixed fee all worry about mobile data overage is gone.

It does look like none of the networks anticipated the demand too well, as I cast my gaze around their Twitter channels it is much the same.

My thinking is that the death of Steve Jobs has, in some part, contributed to the "gold rush" that seems to be going on. There is nothing particularly ground breaking with the iPhone 4S, the iPhone 4 remains a formidable piece of hardware and is walk-in-available everywhere.

So this time the rush seems, to me, to be disproportionate to what is on offer.

[Wilt]

It's always is disproportionate to what is on offer with Apple products. I think the increased demand may be the extra few months wait we have had that has had people waiting to upgrade their phone. Those that got an iphone 3GS (assuming most contracts are 24 months) at launch and the few months after are now due an upgrade. Add that to those that are new switchers to the iphone that have been waiting for the new version and you have a massive rush when the launch finally arrives.

Maybe o2 are trying to be the last operator standing with iphones? All the other networks are going to sell out at the pre-order stage, with a potentially long wait for new stock, so that will leave o2 with free reign to charge whatever they want.

Either way o2 will sell out of their initial allocation, but they are losing a lot of goodwill from some long standing customers here...a lot of the customers upgrading now will be those who got the original iphone and then upgraded to the 3gs after that...

[Hands0n]

There is an interesting analysis of the iPhone 4S tariffs and TCO on Kens Tech Tips today http://cow.neondragon.net/index.php/apple-iphone-4s-uk-tariff-comparison?utm_source=Twitter

It is wise for people to do their own research before committing. The operators can be highly specious when it comes contract Ts&Cs and their associated AUPs and FUPs.

My own particular view on this is that smartphones are going to drive up mobile data usage, particularly with the streaming and cloud services. A lot can happen in 24 months, and it is a brave (or foolish) soul indeed that makes such a commitment to strictly enforced data limits of 500MB for the likes of an iPhone.

[blush]

I am really glad I can afford to buy sim free and keep my existing tariff which is way cheaper than all these horrible 24 month plans. As @hands0n say Three's plans are by far the cheapest and easiest to understand. O2 have not got a clue, I think they want to get rid of all their smartphone customers and retain the older folks who just want to make calls.

I picked up an o2 tariff guide when in town today and the basic data allowance of 100mb is laughable, be interesting to see when using ios5 with cloud services just how much data is transferred.

[Hands0n]

Oi @blush, not so much of "... the older folks ..." :D I'm actually not that far off from being considered a "Silver Surfer" myself ROFL :o But of course, I tease, I know what you mean ... Plenty of my [younger] folks have no perception of mobile data, not understanding why they may even want it.

My biggest fear, for O2 smartphone customers, is that they are going to get royally stiffed by O2's dreadful data allowances. You're absolutely right, 100MB is laughable in 2011, going on to 2012. How is that possibly going to support those who've bought their shiny new toys when the Olympics arrive? There will be all manner of information available "on-line" that O2's customers are either going to have to do without, or unknowingly rack up hundreds of pounds of data overage charges.

That is either dreadfully poor planning or an entirely cynical ploy to hook customers now with headline "deals" only to stiff the customer later when they find that the charges being applied are hurting.

Regardless of what anyone says about Three, if they have a service in your area, they really are the only sensible and smart option for a smartphone buyer today. Now, if only they will listen to their customers and do something about that continuingly dreadful off-shore customer service operation. Now and again you find a real star working there (as did I recently), but the general CS experience is routinely horrid. But I digress.

[Wilt]

I really hope those people signing themselves up to 24 months with 500mb (Or less, look at what voda are doing: http://goo.gl/I1jRN. 250mb!) data limits aren't planning on using iCloud...some of that stuff looks very data intensive. Unless that stuff is limited to wifi like facetime...in which case the entire thing becomes infinitely less useful.

[blush]

Oi @blush, not so much of "... the older folks ..." :D I'm actually not that far off from being considered a "Silver Surfer" myself ROFL :o But of course, I tease, I know what you mean ... Plenty of my [younger] folks have no perception of mobile data, not understanding why they may even want it.

:o:oWhoops!:o:o sorry dude :)

You know what I mean though, the classic old couple with huge prehistoric mobiles who put on their glasses and squint at the screen holding out one finger trying to work out what button to press!

I was in Kwik Fit last week and there was the stereo typical couple and the phone started ringing, I think the classsic Nokia tune. It took them ages to realise it was their phone and by the time they had got the phone out of the bag the call had gone to voicemail. Had to smile to myself.

As you say it's youngsters too who struggle, several of my colleagues can barely use the phone as a phone and treat it like some devil sent evil! :D


I have been studying the Apple iCloud website but could not establish how much data ios5 would transfer and when. I worked out that when you buy an app on one device it installs to all devices but wonder if the app is huge such as sat nav or similar that this does not happen until you are on wifi. Could be very interesting, I can see a BBC Watchdog report coming on of massive data bills.

[Hands0n]

No problem dude :) I'm at the age where I can choose whether to be younger or blinking ancient :D It wont' last ...

But yes, apart from technically oriented people, or those who simply "get it" in regard to smartphones it does seem like everyone else has just bought themselves the latest bling in handsets. I'm often asked "Why on earth do I want to do email on my phone" missing the point entirely around the word SMARTphone!

My thinking is that the mobile operators have heavily undersold their data allowances, not only for the iPhone but all the others too who will inevitably follow up with similar cloud services and the like. Already we see Android phones drain meagre data allowances simply by being left switched on, as apps update automatically from Android Market or OS updates are pushed silently to the device. None of this bodes well for the likes of O2's 100MB allowance and the like. Echoing Moores Law we can expect mobile data use to increase constantly over time.

Those on 24 month 100MB contracts will indeed suffer.

[DaveC]

Already we see Android phones drain meagre data allowances simply by being left switched on, as apps update automatically from Android Market or OS updates are pushed silently to the device.

All of which you do not have to do. The Android Market allows you to automatically update, be notified of updates, or do nothing till you check. - I have chosen the latter.

As to the OS you can choose to be told when there is an upgrade waiting, so that you can initialise the download when on Wifi. (The method Google say you should use)

[Hands0n]

Agreed, yes, Android is highly configurable. But my thinking is that, out of the box, Android is not quite so benevolent to mobile data. My expectation is that the average user knows nothing of such matters :) Maybe I am being a bit cynical.

For my own case, I have The One Plan with All You Can Eat data and so I just leave it all switched on - rarely, if ever, switching to WiFi and I still struggle to use more than 2GB a month :)

[DaveC]

True, there is a great deal of ignorance about smartphones, people feel they should have one but have no idea how to use it,
Even this morning I saw a post on a forum asking 'if I buy a 4s, do I really need a data bolt on?" That question crops up in various forms regularly. What's the point of a smartphone if you are only going to use it on your home wifi?
I guess those sort of people are never going to be able to configure the thing!

[Ben]

True, there is a great deal of ignorance about smartphones, people feel they should have one but have no idea how to use it,
Even this morning I saw a post on a forum asking 'if I buy a 4s, do I really need a data bolt on?" That question crops up in various forms regularly. What's the point of a smartphone if you are only going to use it on your home wifi?
I guess those sort of people are never going to be able to configure the thing!
All of which is entirely correct IMHO. The smartphone revolution has come only because Apple made them so easy to use that literally anyone could do it. Now complexity is creeping back in...

The data situation is one big bag of fail. When Apple introduced the iPhone they made damn sure that the user didn't have to worry about data. Again, left to their own devices, the networks have begun to reintroduce complexity.

[Ben]

Btw, has anyone had a shipping notification yet? Apparently some folk have started to receive tracking numbers, but it's very very early on. I wouldn't expect to hear anything until Wednesday.

[Craig]

Nothing for me yet. I expect to get one perhaps tomorrow as it is shipping direct from Hong Kong.

[DBMandrake]

The data situation is one big bag of fail. When Apple introduced the iPhone they made damn sure that the user didn't have to worry about data. Again, left to their own devices, the networks have begun to reintroduce complexity.
I think the fundamental problem here is that "data usage" is, and will always remain an intangible quantity for the vast majority of non-technical people.

Look at most other products and services and its easy for the average consumer to gauge use and needs - the amount of petrol your car needs to get from place A to B, the amount of food that will feed X number of mouths, etc.

You have a pretty good idea of how far a tank of petrol will get you, and you can see the fuel gauge go down in a way that matches your driving. Food is a visible quantity that can be inspected by looking to see what's left in the cupboards. :D

Data on the other hand is a mysterious and intangible quantity, which even to those of us who understand it is difficult to judge.

If you click on a video clip somewhere on a website, how much data will it use ? Who knows! If you don't know what bitrate it is, you have no way to predict it. Even if you do you would have to sit down with a calculator before you watched it.

Images on a website ? Who knows, the same physical image size can have widely varying file sizes depending on compression, and its not until after the page has loaded and the data is transferred that you could find out how much it used anyway.

How much data per minute does a Skype video call use ? Who knows! It uses an adaptive bitrate depending on the quality of the connection, and you would need to use some sort of 3rd party data monitoring app to measure it.

Apart from explicitly downloading a file almost everything you do on the internet has no easy way to gauge how much it will use, even for those of us who are technical.

Non technical users are completely in the dark about how much data they are using and are often terrified to do anything for fear of going over their data limit into the realms of punitive over-usage charges.

There is no doubt that the initial unlimited data plans of the original iPhone were responsible for taking away the "fear" of actually using Internet on the device.

If unlimited plans have gone the way of the dodo, they at least need to be comfortably large enough that you're not needing to constantly check your usage, otherwise non-technical users will retreat into their shells and avoid using data as much as possible for fear of unknown extra charges.

[Ben]

The latest chatter is that the 4S has 512MB RAM, rather than the rumoured 1GB.

That's probably fine...

[Craig]

Just seen that myself, I'm also sure it will be fine, Apple would have put it out with the 1GB if it had been required.

I guess its because the A5 chip is so efficient :P

Increased ram would probably have shortened battery life correct?

[Ben]

I'm not sure of the power implications, actually. Are a lot of Androids shipping with 1GB these days? I see the SGS2 has a gig, I wonder if it's more necessary on Android devices and/or if it has much of a performance implication.

I know 256MB was too little for the original iPad, but 512MB seems ample on it.

[Craig]

Bad news! It appears (Acording to many posts) over at macrumours all international orders (Ie anyone outside the USA) will not see their 4S being despatched until the 14th meaning delivery at some point next week :(

I hope all the customer service people are wrong but it appears unlikely.

Edit: Spoke to apple myself and got a different story, they told me if your order states "Ships by October 14th" then you WILL get it on Friday :)

Guess it's a waiting game

[Ben]

Which is what mine says :) Hurrah. Hopeful.

[Craig]

Yep mine says that aswell :)

Cant wait

Ps, some German networks despatched already and people have got them:

http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/10/first4s.jpg

[blush]

I really want to know now from someone who has received their iPhone 4S is the signal is better than the iPhone 4. I guess I pre ordered under the impression the signal will improve. If the phone houses gsm and CDMA the gsm is surely likely to be less sensitive than a pure gsm/wcdma unit. If I see a YouTube video showing the signal is no better I will cancel my order.

Update>>I have decided to cancel after reading a tweet from Ben which basically said £699 is a lot of money for a phone. I think that made me see sense that it is a lot of money for a device which is not actually that much different from my existing device. I have a reputation for my indecisiveness and I think I bought and returned four iPhone 4's before finally keeping it!

When I saw that the Samsung Galaxy SIII is rumoured to have a dual core 1.8Ghz processor and 2Gb RAM and a 12M pixel camera I decided my future phone could well be an Android.

[Ben]

Sorry! :p

Re: SIII... you could be right, though look how the 4S trounces the SII even at a much lower clock speed. I wouldn't go believing the spec sheets so quickly...

I'll be sure to give you a good report on signal quality on the 4S - plenty of shocking coverage around here for me to get a good idea! At least you'll be able to make an informed decision by hanging back :)

[blush]

Well after cancelling last night I had a rethink and reordered a bigger 64gb. ;)

Got to wait even longer though now :mad:

I consider myself an idiot for cancelling :o

[Craig]

^^
Thats one thing I have learned from all this, DONT TRUST RUMOURS :p

I think you made the right choice sticking with the Iphone :)

On a side note I spoke to Apple (again :p) and they reconfirmed that anyone with the status I posted above will have the phone on Friday, But due to the large volume of orders they can take a while to update the status.

[a_ukboy]

I'm glad someone else is as indicisive as me

[Ben]

Well after cancelling last night I had a rethink and reordered a bigger 64gb. ;)
£699 is a hell of a lot of money for a phone.

;)

It's a tough decision to make though, to be sure. Stephen Fry's review was enthused, so I'm hoping we're about to get blown away like with 3G -> 3GS.

[blush]

£699 is a hell of a lot of money for a phone.

;)

It's a tough decision to make though, to be sure. Stephen Fry's review was enthused, so I'm hoping we're about to get blown away like with 3G -> 3GS.

Well I used to be a @mobilemandan and buy several new phones a year, I now only have one annual shop for a new phone. :)

It's just gotta be done :cool:

[Craig]

Finally, preparing for shipment :D

Here's hoping for a early dispatch tomorrow via a 24 hour TNT courier for delivery on Friday :)

[Ben]

Well I used to be a @mobilemandan and buy several new phones a year, I now only have one annual shop for a new phone. :)

It's just gotta be done :cool:
I think many of us were. Some of us still are... (miffed!!! and, actually, Hands0n come to think of it!) I sort-of miss that.

Finally, preparing for shipment :D

Here's hoping for a early dispatch tomorrow via a 24 hour TNT courier for delivery on Friday :)
Mine too! Hope it shifts soon... and that it's in the UK and not China!

[Craig]

Hopefully :)

Acording to another site some UK orders have been dispatched, the courier is called Syncreon Technology Limited UK and are being sent from a warehouse in Birmingham for delivery tomorrow.

As of this moment still no dispatch for me :(

[Ben]

Mine has been dispatched :) Yeah, same courier for me too. Delivery date is indeed the 14th.

[gorilla]

just looking at the poll results, this does seem to be representative of the UK now. Yes only 10 people have voted, but only 4 are definitely buying the 4GS. In a couple of years it might actually be "cool" to buy an iPhone again :)

[Craig]

Mine has been dispatched :) Yeah, same courier for me too. Delivery date is indeed the 14th.

Great to hear mate :)

Mine is still preparing for shipment :(

[Craig]

Finally been dispatched :D

Edit: it appears it's UPS delivering mine, apples tracking is down right now but manually putting it into UPS I get all the delivery details, it's also on track for delivery tomorrow :)

[Ben]

Cool :D I have no idea how to track mine other than via Apple's site, but Apple say it's out for delivery so that'll do for me.

Excited to play! In theory I suppose I can just log into it at work and it'll 'do it all', no iTunes sync required? :S Maybe I should make my phone back up to iCloud and see if it can restore from that... ooo...

[Craig]

Just arrived right now, in the process of setting it up :)

[Ben]

Love being able to use it without having had to connect to iTunes! First iPhone I've been able to use while still at work :)

Looks a bit odd having two practically identical white iPhones side by side...

[DBMandrake]

Hi People,

I've created a new thread specific to iOS 5 as well as the new features of the iPhone 4S here:

https://talk3g.co.uk/showthread.php?9082-The-iOS-5-%28and-iPhone-4S%29-thread

So once you have those new 4S's in your clutches, and/or you've upgraded to iOS 5, let us know what you like/dislike about the new OS and/or phone :)

[Craig]

Loving the IPhone 4S

Siri is great and the camera and A5 processor upgrade is awesome.

My one annoyance is existing iPhone 4 cases won't fit because the mute switch and volume buttons are slightly further down so I will need to buy a new iPhone case :/

[Ben]

So they are! Damn that redesigned antenna band! :D

I just have a red leather slip case from SENA so I hadn't noticed. I guess bumpers have to be different though? No matter, I'm giving mine to the iPhone 4's new minder!

[Craig]

I'm going to have to get a new case

I have a cheap silicone case on it at the moment. Perhaps a nice clear case...

[Ben]

Perhaps a nice clear case...
Unfortunately I can't believe that such a thing exists :(

It's a shame a case is so necessary with the 4, these things are so nice to hold just as they are it seems a crime to encase them in some cheap bit of tat.

[blush]

So Ben is the phone any better at getting signal compared to your iPhone 4?

[Ben]

Vodafone is down at my office so it's a little hard to tell, I keep picking up a bit of EDGE. FWIW, my iPhone 4 couldn't get a fat lot of anything.

I'm in Canterbury tonight where I know the signal is awful on Vodafone so I'll see how that fares up and let you know asap :)

[Craig]

@ben there will be one, I had one for my iPhone 4 and it was pretty nice, but yes I agree they look best without a case but I want it to be protected :/

@blush I have pretty good signal with O2 in my house, with the 4s I would say it is better imo

[Ben]

For anyone still on the fence, speed comparison opening apps 4 to 4S: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/14/speed-comparison-video-of-iphone-4s-and-iphone-4/

I appreciate for a lot of users this won't make any difference - the speed increase is clearly demonstrated but it's not going to set anyone's hair on fire. Unless, of course, you open/switch between apps a lot and use your phone heavily, like I do. I'm rather pleased!

[blush]

Good to hear that the reception seems better @Ben, will be interested to out how you get on in Canterbury. @Craig I was driving round SE London today and the 3G was terrible today, possibly a combination of iPhone 4 and o2's rubbish signal. All sounds quite positive other than the case issue. I am rather annoyed that I cancelled my first order for an iPhone 4s but will still see how you guys get on over the coming days.

[Ben]

Reception was MUCH better in Canterbury last night. I had solid 2G at all times (to the extent of even being able to use data, shocker), and even a bar of completely usable and stable 3G in the Abode - as the HD video on my Facebook wall can attest to. It's pulling better signal than the 4 or 3GS.

Too much of an improvement to just be coincidence I think.

Don't get me wrong, Vodafone is still shocking in Canterbury.

[blush]

That is good to hear Ben. It it is better than the 3GS then I will be happy. Quite frequently the wife has a signal when I don't on her 3GS compared to my iPhone 4.

[Ben]

Just a little note to say I'm absolutely loving the 4G. It's difficult, I suppose, to pin down exactly how much of my enjoyment is down to iOS 5 rather than the handset itself, but a few definite notes that may aid anyone with a buying decision ahead of them.

1- The camera is fantastic and fast. Jumping into the camera and using the volume + to take a snap is now as quick as any point-and-shoot camera you're likely to pick up.
2- At St Pancras on Saturday Vodafone appeared very congested. However, I was able to better utilise 3G data than my friends' iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS also on the same network... curious. I'm also pulling better signal generally, as mentioned previously.
3- Speed. It's smooth-as. The iPhone 4 may be no slouch, but the S makes transitions seem impossibly fluid and all-round it's very impressive.

For some, the sheer 64GB of flash capacity may be enough to swing it. You'll need it for recording those full HD videos and taking those stunning 8mpx HDR photos.

[DBMandrake]

Just a little note to say I'm absolutely loving the 3GS.

I presume 3GS was a typo :D
Edit by Ben: Haha, wow, that's unfortunate! Fixed, thanks ;)



2- At St Pancras on Saturday Vodafone appeared very congested. However, I was able to better utilise 3G data than my friends' iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS also on the same network... curious. I'm also pulling better signal generally, as mentioned previously.

Despite the similar look, the antenna design between the iPhone 4 and 4S is completely different. Physically the antenna design is the same as the diversity reception antenna on the CDMA version of the iPhone 4, with the two notches at the top.

Here is the iPhone 4 antenna design:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2

The GSM/UMTS antenna consisted of the bottom section near the dock connector, joined together with the right hand side and a bit of the top, so the antenna was a J shape. (There was a notch in the bottom right corner, but inside the bottom and right hand side were connected together electrically)

The remaining piece on the left hand side up to the earphone socket was shared by Bluetooth, Wifi and GPS.

The problem came about mainly due to bridging the gap in the bottom left corner - connecting the two antennas together, which would have seriously detuned the antenna, hence the "death grip". However touching the antenna anywhere along its length would have had some effect, and it's pretty hard to hold the phone without touching either the bottom or right hand side.

To be fair, a 3GS gripped firmly at the bottom (where the antenna is) exhibits some drop, but not as much as an iPhone 4. When on a call I hold my 3GS near the top with my index finger, so I tend to get good signals, however when holding it at the base while texting or browsing, significant signal loss is noticeable even on the 3GS.

Enter the 4S, and things have totally changed. Now we have two redundant GSM/UMTS antennas - one is the strip along the bottom, the other the strip along the top. Bluetooth, Wifi and GPS are no longer connected to any external antenna and instead have conventional antennas inside behind the rear glass in the upper middle section of the phone. As far as I know the left and right sides of the frame are not connected to anything, and are not used as antennas, unlike the iPhone 4.

So why do this, when the antennas are smaller ? The answer is antenna diversity. CDMA requires receive diversity which means that there must be two physically separated antennas on the phone which it can select moment to moment, however transmit is still only from one antenna.

With the 4S Apple has gone one step further so that there is full transmit/receive diversity, even on GSM/UMTS, which means that from moment to moment the phone will choose whether to use the top antenna or the bottom one.

The advantage of this is clear - not only are there no longer two different antennas right next to each other to be bridged in the corner, but no normal way of holding the phone during a call will ever put your hand in contact with both the top strip and the bottom strip at once - one of them will always be free to work with 100% effectiveness.

Grip the phone at the base when talking and it will use the top antenna, hold the phone at the sides and top when talking (as I do) and it will select the bottom antenna. Hold the phone for texting and browsing, obscuring the bottom, and it will use the top antenna.

Hold the phone in landscape from one side or the other and it will use the opposite antenna. Only if holding the phone in landscape with both hands on the end strip would there be any problem, and it should be very minimal.

Brilliant solution. If they've done it right it should work better than the 3GS let alone the iPhone 4.

It's still early days but I think if good reports keep flowing in about the signal reception of the iPhone 4S (and I've seen quite a lot) I'll have to put it onto my "want" list. :) (The iPhone 4 never made it there, mainly due to the antenna)

I'd be interested to see other peoples experiences with signal on the 4S, especially if they have a 4 or 3GS to compare it with in the same locations.

[Ben]

For anyone still undecided, here are a few observations after living with the 4S for a week and a bit. I use my iPhone extensively and exclusively so hopefully that puts me in a good position.

The positives

It's definitely quick, though how useful the extra power really is will only be revealed in time.
Build quality is generally excellent. My microSIM tray isn't quite as flush as on my 4, but all the buttons feel firmer and more positive.
Camera snaps are awesome; anyone who uses their phone as their primary point-and-shoot will be very satisfied.
Battery life is good under normal usage conditions, i.e. maybe a couple of dozen texts, several uses of Facebook and Twitter, a couple of several-minute calls.
Proximity sensor works well, no issues dialling numbers with my face or anything like that ;)
Antenna is excellent, I consistently have better, more usable signal in places where a couple of weeks ago I'd have either struggled or had nothing.
I quite like the new vibrate motor. Feels a bit space-age, sounds cool too.


The not-so-positives

Battery life still isn't great under heavy usage. Long iMessage/SMS conversations drain the battery rapidly. 4 or so hours of relatively furious texting and emailing yesterday and I was at 30% by lunchtime. Perhaps given how I was using the phone that's not too bad, but I'd still like my iPhone to give me more.
The 4S gets warmer, I'm sure, than the 4 did under heavy use and charging. More of a neutral observation but it's hardly a positive.
The front camera is still bad for pictures, which is really annoying as I often like to take pictures with it when out-and-about with friends. It's spot-on for FaceTime but I'm often disappointed with photos is all. Same as 4.
It's still a heavy, slippy phone. Again, this is more of a neutral observation, but it can't be denied that the design isn't hugely practical in a world full of drops, bumps, and scrapes.


If you have an iPhone 4 and one of the below statements applies then it's worth upgrading:
- You're unhappy with the camera
- You're unhappy with the antenna performance
- You need more storage

Otherwise, until apps come out that really take the A5 processor in the 4S to the next level there's very little point. There's Siri, of course, but unless you specifically need that I'm not even going to bother going into it - it's clever and all but I don't have a day to day use for it.

It's a stunning phone. Ultimately, it makes things easy.

[gorilla]

Thanks Ben, that's a nice balanced review. I keep thinking that I'd like a 4S, but there are too many things about it that make me think I'm better off with the SG2. I will more than likely reconsider my stance on iPhones when they release iPhone 5.

[DBMandrake]

Battery life still isn't great under heavy usage. Long iMessage/SMS conversations drain the battery rapidly. 4 or so hours of relatively furious texting and emailing yesterday and I was at 30% by lunchtime. Perhaps given how I was using the phone that's not too bad, but I'd still like my iPhone to give me more.
The 4S gets warmer, I'm sure, than the 4 did under heavy use and charging. More of a neutral observation but it's hardly a positive.

Have you tried doing a full backup and restore with iTunes ? The internet is abuzz with reports of poor battery life in iOS 5, for some people but not others, so I think you'll find its iOS 5 to blame rather than any hardware differences with the 4 vs 4S.

I started to have really serious battery drain issues on my 3GS after a couple of days running iOS 5 to the point where it was getting warm when locked and would be mostly drained after less than 8 hours of it being mostly unused. (I believe Nicky had the same problem too)

It can be hard to tell whether there is unusual battery drain if you're also using the device heavily, but what I've found is a great test is to fully charge the phone in the evening then leave it off the charger over night so standby time can be measured.

Normally 8 hours later in the morning the phone should still have at least 90% battery left, if not there could be a problem, if it's less than 60% or so you definitely have a software problem that is preventing the phone sleeping properly - probably a background system process churning at 100% cpu, which is what most people who have investigated further have found.

For me, doing a second full backup and restore with iTunes fixed it. You might also want to check the following link for some ideas:

http://www.macworld.com/article/163200/2011/10/troubleshoot_iphone4s_battery.html

After doing a second restore I've actually been very impressed with the battery life of my 3GS on iOS 5 - it's now lasting me all day even with heavy use, it wasn't even doing that on 4.3.5, and I particularly noticed that travelling by train doesn't kill the battery for me now.

Previously on 4.x two 20 minute train trips (with poor coverage) and an hour or so of walking around the city would see my battery drop to around 70% even if I didn't use the phone at all, now I'm seeing it stay above 90% in the same circumstances. Whether its iOS 5 to thank for that, or doing the second restore I'm not sure.

My gut feeling is that overall, battery life in iOS 5 is actually improved, but that there are a couple of bugs which, if triggered, cause very rapid battery drain from misbehaving background tasks.

I know its probably a pain to do a backup/restore, but its worth a try, eh ? :)

[Ben]

My standby time is fine, it's just when I'm kicking its ass. Doesn't help that there's 1000ms latency on the net connection.

Not after tonight, providing I can get the fibre working!

[Hands0n]

Hey peeps, I still have not got an iPhone 4S. That must be some kind of personal record :D

There remains not enough in the 4S to draw me to spend the better part of £500 on an update from the iPhone 4. I've seen the 4S. I've held the 4S. I've played for an hour or so with the 4S. And its left me feeling completely "meh!" about the whole thing. If anything, I'm all fired up about Google Android 4.0, Ice Cream Sandwich, for smartphones and tablets - of which I have both.

NB: Grats on the fibre Ben. Welcome back to the Interwebs from your Fortress of Solitude :)

[DBMandrake]

AnandTech have come up with a nice in depth review of the iPhone 4S here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4971/apple-iphone-4s-review-att-verizon

Particularly pleasing is the section on page two discussing the technicalities of the new antenna design and diversity transmission/reception of the 4S. To summarise in a few words the antenna issues of the iPhone 4 are non-existent on the 4S, and in fact it performs extremely well in regard to signal both with and without being held certain ways. I had pretty much already inferred by looking at the design of the new diversity antennas and their placement that it would solve the issue and potentially work even better than a conventional single internal antenna, but its nice to see it being analysed and tested thoroughly. :)

The section on the design and performance of the new camera is also quite interesting. One thing is for sure, Anandtech know their stuff. :)

[Ben]

Thanks for that DBMandrake. I ended up reading way more than I intended to!

The long and short of it is that I definitely want an iPhone 4S now!

Wait... I bought it already... damn :p

[DBMandrake]

Hahaha... :)

I always enjoy reading Anandtech's reviews, they go into a lot of technical detail that most others don't, and generally know what they're talking about - and I like to know as much about how something works as possible, especially if I'm contemplating buying it. I'm one of those people who analyses and weighs up every little detail before a purchase of that sort.

Although I had already decided I want a 4S (unlike the 4, which I decided I didn't want) it helped confirm my initial thoughts that I want one, especially the antenna and camera sections of the review. Now all that's holding me up is the money. Money, where are you! Damn... ;)

[Ben]

Some of the graphs do a great job of showing how well the iPhone 4S kicks out against competitor handsets in hardware terms. I found the memory bandwidth stuff really interesting, too - it's ridiculously powerful kit!

[The Mullet of G]

I got a white 64GB one, as I needed the extra storage space. But also noticed the micro-sim tray doesn't sit as flush as my iPhone 4, also it got locked on a single bar of 2G signal and I had to restart to get 3G, then my message tone stopped working so had to restart again to get that sorted. I like a lot of things about it, but its definitely not without its flaws.

[Ben]

Yeah the SIM tray thing is odd, iPhone 4 was finished a little nicer.

The other things sound strange, though... keep an eye on that, I'd be considering a swift replacement if it keeps up!

Loving the 64GBness - good choice! Omg the cost though? Still, 64GB of anything isn't without cost I suppose.

[miffed]

Things like the SIM tray , don't these vary from handset to handset ? I had 3 x 3GS's in the house and I noticed the chrome bezel sat funny on one of them , not ridiculously funny , just a little raised on one side , you couldn't even see the difference -only feel it with your finger ! and the same with the SIM tray , was slighty prominent on my first one , but when Apple replaced it , the replacement was perfect.

[Ben]

Maybe; I had 3x iPhone 4's and never an issue until the 4S. Mullet gets the same deal and I go into that notorious anecdotal evidence/create my own facts mode :D ;)

[miffed]

I did tell the Apple shop to make sure mullet gets a dodgy one though ;)

[The Mullet of G]

Thanks Miffed. :D

I checked my mates 32GB Black 4S and his SIM tray is the same, I even tried putting the SIM tray from my iPhone 4 in the 4S, but no dice. For me it seems like the SIM tray doesn't sit quite straight and is off at a slight angle caussing the SIM try to stick out a little on the eject pinhole side of the tray.

[Ben]

Same as mine, I guess they're probably all the same.

[blush]

Well I did own a white 64gb iPhone 4s but whilst on holiday at my in-laws in Spain on the Costa Blanca I had the phone stolen.

I went to the beach and changed into swimming trunks and left my old Nokia E51 which I use for travel, iPhone 4s and my wallet in the car boot. I was obviously watched as after about 20 minutes of fun with my son jumping waves I returned to the car to find the rear offside tyre had been slashed, rear quarter light smashed with phones and wallet gone. Stupidly I have never activated find my iPhone and didn't even have the key lock pin enabled. I rang O2 instantly to block the sim and they blocked the IMEI too but I guess this would only lock out UK networks and not Europe/Worldwide as was designed to.

I wish Apple had a feature to permanently disable the device where you could show all your devices online and be able to render them useless.

I am currently using a Nokia Lumia 800 as my main phone but need an iPhone back in my life, it was backed up in iTunes before I went on holiday but just a large and unnecessary expense. Hopefully my father in law's car insurance might cover it.

I hope by now there is no need to reserve a phone and that I can just walk in and purchase one from an Apple store.

The thing is if I did have find my iPhone enabled I would of had data roaming turned off so it probably would have been useless anyway.

The really annoying thing is I took loads of photos of us playing on the beach and in the background there is an old Seat Ibiza which is parked a good distance away but you can see the occupants watching us. A few photos later the car reverses up to my father in law's car. A few minutes later after a few more photos the car is gone. The car number plate is too far away and grainy to be of any use, so basically I documented the theft in a photo blog! Gutted.

[Ben]

That's a horrible story! I felt violated when someone pinched mine. That someone was watching you and smashed into your boot is just all the more horrible.

You're right, I'm not sure Find My iPhone would have been much help with data roaming disabled. I'm guessing you'll be setting it up on the new iPhone, though :( I got to see mine making its escape before I locked and wiped it - not a wholly nice experience in itself.

You should be fine just walking in and getting one now. If there is a queue of foreigners, however, try your luck on various members of staff. I spoke to one guy and he rebuffed me, but then spoke to another who was more sympathetic to my story and took me aside (as a genuine customer... so damn right) and sold me my replacement.

How's life with the Lumia as the main phone?

[The Mullet of G]

That's a horrible story! I felt violated when someone pinched mine. That someone was watching you and smashed into your boot is just all the more horrible.

You're right, I'm not sure Find My iPhone would have been much help with data roaming disabled. I'm guessing you'll be setting it up on the new iPhone, though :( I got to see mine making its escape before I locked and wiped it - not a wholly nice experience in itself.

You should be fine just walking in and getting one now. If there is a queue of foreigners, however, try your luck on various members of staff. I spoke to one guy and he rebuffed me, but then spoke to another who was more sympathetic to my story and took me aside (as a genuine customer... so damn right) and sold me my replacement.

How's life with the Lumia as the main phone?


The guy who rebuffed you is probably working at McDonald's now, how very dare he. I'm surprised that you don't have some sort of Apple card that you can flash that gets you to the front of the que and a concierge, considering the amount of Apple gear you've bought over the years its the least they can do. :)

[Hands0n]

It is a dreadful experience to go through, fortunately I've not had to with any of my phones, but years ago had a motorcycle stolen. Truly gutting when it happens.

I do think that all smartphones should be enabled with "Find my " protection. With the iPhone and iPad it is built in to the device and iCloud. With Android there are several installable alternatives such as LookOut or Avast (I can recommend the latter) - check Market.

[blush]

How's life with the Lumia as the main phone?

Life without the iphone was pretty bad. The onscreen keyboard on the Lumia 800 is terrible and I made so many mistakes. The battery was emptying so rapidly and with 3g turned off so I headed off to Bluewater and am now the proud owner of a iphone 4S in black, had a white before the theft but missed the black iphones I was used to.

I'm getting a bomb proof housing and having this one welded to a thick chain around my neck! I have lots of notes on my iphone containing info I use everyday and without it I didnt have any easy access to this information.

[Hands0n]

@blush - congrats on the purchase. I sympathise with the paranoia :D And don't forget to activate "Find My iPhone" as soon as you have it all restored.

[blush]

@blush - congrats on the purchase. I sympathise with the paranoia :D And don't forget to activate "Find My iPhone" as soon as you have it all restored.

I have find my iPhone enabled and the key lock pass code on too, I'm gonna do my best not to have this one nicked! I have also now secured the iPad too! The Guardia Civil were pretty sure the thief/thieves would be from South America and will have recently lost their jobs.

[Ben]

The guy who rebuffed you is probably working at McDonald's now, how very dare he. I'm surprised that you don't have some sort of Apple card that you can flash that gets you to the front of the que and a concierge, considering the amount of Apple gear you've bought over the years its the least they can do. :)
LOL! Ok, my phrasing did sound a little elitist... The queue of grey-market buyers was so bad at the Apple Store in Covent Garden that they actually announced that they had stopped selling iPhones for the day when I went back the second time and sent everyone away. That's when I shared my sob-story with one of the staff and managed to convince them to make an exception and sell me a phone. But now you've got me thinking on this Apple card... ;)

The battery was emptying so rapidly and with 3g turned off so I headed off to Bluewater and am now the proud owner of a iphone 4S in black, had a white before the theft but missed the black iphones I was used to.
Congratulations! Interesting that you went back to black. I think I'm firmly in the white camp now, but you never know :) Perhaps the black one really does look 'better'... for some reason it doesn't stop me wanting the white.

[blush]

Congratulations! Interesting that you went back to black. I think I'm firmly in the white camp now, but you never know :) Perhaps the black one really does look 'better'... for some reason it doesn't stop me wanting the white.

I think the proximity sensor and the front facing camera look quite ugly on the white version. On the black iPhone the sensor and the camera do not stand out much. I had a black silicon case on the white iPhone so it was a bit pointless getting the phone in white anyway. I don't know if my previous 4S was faulty but the new black phone seems to hold signal much better and generally shows more signal bars. I have a Speck pixel skin HD on this new phone and used to have a Protec case before, I always suspected the Protec of somehow attenuating signal.