[Hands0n]

Phew! That took a very long time. It is more than 2-1/2 years old and has been driving me nuts. But finally I am rid of the long-running Vodafone contract that I got my HTC Magic on. It has got to go as it simply is no good for me anymore.

The Magic is long gone, sold on eBay for a shade under £100, since which I have used the SIM in a Google Nexus One.

I am glad to see the back of this contract for the service simply because it has become inferior to what I can get on Three and giffgaff (O2 believe it or not!). At £35 a month for 600 minutes, 3000 texts and 500MB Internet it is very poor value indeed. For £10 less, on Three, I get 2,000 minutes, 5000 texts and truly unlimited Internet. On giffgaff for a £10 goodybag I get 250 minutes, unlimited texts and unlimited Internet (in both cases "unlimited" being the dictionary definition of the word).

The only SIM I now have on Vodafone is a £25 30-day SIM-only on my iPhone. I am now seriously thinking of chucking that in for another Three The One Plan or maybe simply use another giffgaff PAYG with Goody Bag top ups and be done with.

What? No new contract?
No, I'm afraid not. I have taken some exception to Vodafone's network quality - which I feel is currently very poor - and their tariffs, which I think are now non-competitive for what you get. The persist in treating mobile data like some kind of premium product when in fact all Vodafone are, in common with the other UK mobile network operators, are pipes, pure and simple.

That they have aspirations to be some kind of "meejia" company is completely irrelevant to me. I do not want to be a VIP with "free" tickets to events and places. And I very particularly do not want to subsidise those that do.

What I want is for Vodafone to sell me calls, texts and vast amounts of mobile data that I may, or may not, use from time to time. I don't want to have to keep my eye on the meter constantly for fear of going over some notional Fair Use Policy that is anything but fair. Unless you consider the word "fair" alongside Vodafone's previous definition of "unlimited".

Shareholder Value
Those two words make my blood run cold. When used they signal that the company is now nothing more than a vehicle for generating shareholder wealth. The product and core business become irrelevant. The company brand will be used by any and all means to drive up this shareholder value and critical investment in the core business will suffer.

Those who may remember Norton Motorcycles may also recall its near-renaissance which then ended up in a complete wipe out when they spread their business into furniture manufacture. All in the interests of "shareholder value" it was said. The company was stretched beyond its means, the recession hit and there was insufficient core financial strength to hold the firm up and it collapsed into oblivion. The shareholders, like the predators they are, moved on.

So you'll have to forgive me if I remain unimpressed with Colao's proclaimed steer to drive up this shareholder value in Vodafone. The cash he's pulling in is by selling off previous acquisitions, which is fine and good if there is a benefit to be had. But if it is only to make the firm look good in shareholder terms then it is missing the point.

And already, in the interests of improving shareholder value, the call centre operations has been all but completely located to India, that land of call centre oblivion where "customer service" is a nuisance and cultural mystery. Reading the forums and Twitter channels says it all. This is a big mistake by Vodafone and they may well suffer for it in the longer term.

It all helps
... to make my mind up that Vodafone is not really the mobile network operator that I want to do very much business with, if any. Even my employers are investigating an alternative provider to Vodafone, something that I have no influence over, it is pure coincidence. There was a time when there was no other network for an enterprise to go to. That is now history, as is my contract with Vodafone.

Will I ever go back?
I expect so, but the proposition will have to at the very least match the competition, and their reputation will have to pick up very many points from where it is sinking to now. One very objective, the other very subjective, but all part of the value equation that I tend to go through.

[miffed]

My Vodafone contract ( same one !!) was terminated on the 18th of this very month !

Even with the staff discount I had (through a friend) I was not the in the least bit interested in prolonging the agony , it was a truly awful experience that I was half expecting when I signed up , but who knows how these things are going to turn out ? I took a similar risk with Three , and an *touches wood* have had no problems whatsoever and near flawless service ! I have only once in 7 months experienced "no signal" , which is something I was expecting to be far more of a problem with the talk of no 2G fallback.
Vodafone , of course have plenty of 2G fallback - I saw it more often than 3G !! Which in 2010 is bloody ridiculous. , especially when at the time your branding was all based around being the fastest network in the country !!

like you , I will not doubt try again one day , to see if things have improved , but it won't be for a long while , and not before I have given Orange another (long overdue) go. ....again , no reason to assume they are any better than when I last used them (N95 I think) but you have to suck it and see every once in a while .

[hecatae]

Ordered my giffgaff sim, thanks for the encouragement

[Ben]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if it wasn't for Vodafone Sure Signal I'd have them out on their behinds as well.

I've always been prepared to pay a little extra with Vodafone in order to benefit from the expanse and performance of their network. I've been grumbling on here for some time now that performance is no longer a crown Vodafone wears.

Re: Orange; I just had several people stay who use Orange because it's a popular network up in the Midlands. Down here, though, Canterbury/Whitstable way at least, coverage is absolutely abysmal. While at some point things will even up, I think Three still has the edge around here for 3G, with Vodafone for 2G.

I'm moving data contracts over to Three from Vodafone and not regretting it for a second. In fact, this has inspired me to see if I've got any other Vodafone data connections I can abort now the Three business a/c has been up and running for a while.

[getti]

I just cancelled one of my 2 Vodafone lines paying a ETF of £200 to get out early. I did this because if you cancel early you get a 20% discount by not paying the VAT. And I am about 48hrs away from cancelling the other remaining line I have with them mainly down to poor service and not competing as much as they used to.

I am always getting texts saying I have gone over my 750MB and will now be charged, where I used to be charged £5 for 500MB because I changed to the version where your inclusive allowance can be used for tethering that has now changed to £5 for just 250MB of extra data. Considering 750MB is not even enough for my phone use I really dont know why i bothered changing to the new plan.

The most annoying thing (which I have spoken to Hands0n about on many times recently) is the lack of MMS on my account. I have a new number which was ported in from T-Mobile with a 07415 code, all other networks have that number in their MMS server range so can send and receive MMS to my phone, but Vodafone have not.

I reported this to them over 2 MONTHS ago explaining what the issue was so all it needed really was a fix and seeing as they knew the issue now this should not take too long. 2 months later and I had heard nothing so I asked what was going on to be told it was reported, given a fault number and was told it was being looked into... that was a week ago and again I have heard nothing.

What is more annoying is that not only can no one MMS me, they get an error saying unknown number but i cannot send any MMS myself to anyone not even email addresses!. Every time I have called about this I was told MMS is provisioned on the account 'but not fully' they have done that for me now and try again in 24hrs......... and after 24hrs it is still not working and I get the same message over and over and over again. Also what bugs me is I am paying £3 a month for 100MMS for the past 3 months but have not been able to use them yet they will charge me £5 for another 250MB even just going 1MB over.

I have been very impressed with Three, especially the AYCE data offering and what they give you for your allowance here in the UK, where they still fall short though is roaming use, £1.25 a MB when in Europe and £3 per MB outside is VERY expensive with no bundles available yet to bring that price down where at least Vodafone have Passport for calls and 25MB a day free roaming in the EU if your on a suitable plan.

After just coming back from Madrid I will have spent about £25 in excess data charges for the 4 day break and all I did was some twitter, emailing and facebooking, the rest of the time i actually switched roaming data off but Android is a real data hog, on turning on and updating my feed that used about 2-3MB on it's own so 25MB will not go far.

So what I have decided to do is go back to T-Mobile. I still have a Flext 40 plan with them which gets me £225 of use for Calls, Texts, MMS, Voicemail, International Calls/Text and MMS (so i can contact friends abroad), 08 numbers too and I have 50% off that so its only £20 a month. The good thing working there is if i ever leave the company I get the discount for LIFE where as Vodafone's discount ends on the last day of the deal or when you upgrade.

I also have the old Web'n'Walk Max Upgrade on there getting for £15 a month extra 10GB of data which can be used as a modem but more important will be my choice of device. needing keys as I just dont 100% get on with touch screens at the moment I have decided to bet a BlackBerry Bold because for £15 a month I can add the BlackBerry World Booster which gives me data roaming ANYWHERE in the world for no cost (apart from the £15). That includes browsing, BBM, Facebook, Twitter and apps like WordPress.

Before I was a Vodafone customer I always thought of them as a 'premium network' and never minded paying a bit more to get a better experience. However i no longer feel I get that especially with data rates/costs/speeds. At home my HSDPA maxes out at 2.45mb/s on Vodafone. Three gets about 4mb/s here and T-Mobile seems to get about 4.5mb/s.

With Orange/T-Mobile 2G roaming working for indoors already and 3G coming too, i think I have made a good decision, especially with the Ofcom ruling about trading spectrum they have plenty to go with and can trade to get 900 if it is up for grabs, and with them also trailing LTE here in the UK things are looking up for the network.

[miffed]

Before I was a Vodafone customer I always thought of them as a 'premium network' and never minded paying a bit more to get a better experience.

This is the problem IMO , years back I would hear this sentiment echoing all around the internet - My guess is Vodafone were aware of this , and instead of driving them to meet this expectation and become better , they chose to become complacent and "ride" on this perception for a while - which is great until someone points out that the Emperor is actually naked !

[3GScottishUser]

I'm staying with Vodafone as they have delivered what they have promised and have been brilliant when support has been needed.

I noticed on a Tesco fuel pump today that you can call 1000 minutes to any UK mobile or landline for £10 a month with Vodafone on PAYG. That is a bargain!

It's too easy to ignore the issues with 3 and others but Vodafone and 02 have for a long time been satisfying customers and maintaining their subscriber base. That proved, they can't have been doing it all wrong!

I do hope those celebrating leaving the UK's major mobile network providers have a positive experience and will be honest and keep us all in touch with the benefits they have attained moving so we can all take advantage if it's that good.

[Hands0n]

I do hope those celebrating leaving the UK's major mobile network providers have a positive experience and will be honest and keep us all in touch with the benefits they have attained moving so we can all take advantage if it's that good.

You have known us long enough to also know that we remain completely agnostic to any manufacturer, network operator or technology. What we can pride ourselves of, here on Talk3G, is that an honest opinion is always paramount in our thinking.

It is, therefore, wholly up to the companies to win our confidence and acclaim. And you also know that is not given lightly.

[3GScottishUser]

I am just a bit concerned that lately this place is becoming a little too Apple and 3 centric.

A look back through the posts provides some hard evidence that the majority of topical discussion has shifted to a narrow range of Apple related issues and I have not seen much in the way of equity in terms of network discussion.

Needs some addressing perhaps to remain credible as an independent forum when Apple has 25% of the UK smartphone market and Apple posts here vastly outweigh that proportion in terms of discussion?

Because a few high profile folks have bought into the Apple deal are others who form the majority of mobile users being left out?

[Hands0n]

Nevertheless, it must be considered a reflection of the reality out there.

It doesn't matter that Apple have 25% of the UK smartphone market, when GSMA itself has said recently that over 65% of Internet "impressions" are from iOS devices over the GSM/3G network. That means that all of those other smartphones are not being so actively used for the purpose they were designed. Why not?

And take Three seriously for a moment - they have come on leaps and bounds over the past few years under Russell's stewardship. Yes, they have a dreadful history, and one remaining dead Albatross around their necks, but they are trying and are making some remarkable propositions that cannot be ignored. Yet, in the face of this the other network operators responded by jacking up their prices, reducing FUPs and generally being complete idiots, rather than respond to the challenge. They, too, think Three will disappear in its own vortex. But I do believe they will have to eat dirt in time to come.

So what would you have us do? Write lies about the other operators, stating how great they are, how competitive, how they are supporting and encouraging the growth of the smartphone, how they are empowering the masses to have Internet access on the go? Because to do so would be blatantly incorrect.

Rewind time a little bit - when T-Mobile introduced FlexT and then Web n Walk I was one of the first on here to go for it. I have written pages on their service and the experience. They stagnated with their product line and I moved on, leaving FlextT and Web n Walk behind. Good network proposition, poor hardware availability in comparison to others.

Forward a bit, when O2 got the iPhone exclusive, I went on to their network for the hardware - and the experience was dire! Their network remains shabby, sparsely distributed, 3G as rare as Unicorn droppings and when it is apparent it is poor.

And so it goes on - as the various networks and manufactures have gone the circle from Champ to Chump they have been judged accordingly and reviewed on Talk3G impartially.

That is the key, impartiality, agnosticism, and if the result is that one or two names pop to the top of the pile then so be it. That is the nature of the beast.

[getti]

I think its showing how things change. Rewind 2 years and I would have been banging on all day about the Nokia N9 recently..... now I hardly pay it any attention, times change and things move on..... but also some things dont.

Three still have shocking CS, but they are starting to plug that whole with things like the Twitter team and the Blog. Also with deals like The One Plan they have moving the industry forward for the better and not sitting back letting us pay over the odds for services. The fact I used 46GB to test in 2 weeks with no charge and other networks have started to cut back on data use shows they are forward thinking.

With Apple, well im not an Apple Fanboy i use their products, i have owned and sold countless iPhones and will of course look at the iPhone 5 when it comes out as will most of us but then again if they do not deliver the goods they wont get our money.

2 years ago I remember Ben being REALLY pro-Vodafone, now look whats happened, Vodafone being cancelled and Three being the network of choice.

[3GScottishUser]

I'm just slightly concerned that the changes by prominent posters may be skewing the balance of things here.

It was once a place to discuss lots of technology, makes, networks and products but lately it has become an Apple and 3 converts haven.

Fine and folks should buy what suits their needs but it's becoming a little tiresome having the same opinions stated about the same products and services. I have sadly had to join other forums to get some advice and expand my knowledge of products outwith the Apple range of offerings.

Sure, I appreciate every contributer has their right to promote their preferences but I think anyone would have to admit that lately there has been a very narrow range of experiences shared and that does not help to increase awareness about the range of products and services available in the market.

PS: I still have 3 available and Orange/T-Mobile plus Vodafone, so I am not in any way blinkered and can check out all of those networks anytime on my SIM free Handset.

So come on guys. loose the blinkers and lets hear about the likes of 900Mhz 3G on 02 soon where it's available in the SE of England so I can make an informed decision when it is rolled out in my part of the country.

[Hands0n]

Jeezus Bill, have you actually read anything that iI have said?

Just for the record then - I am running giffgaff (O2), Vodafone, Three side by side. I am running Android 2.3.4 Gingerbread (Three) and iOS4 (Voda) mobile phones side by side, and in daily use, they go everywhere with me. I have a Gingerbread Blade with giffgaff (O2) that I use to act as a control to the other two. I also have an iOS 4 iPad 2 (Three) and Android Honeycomb 3.0.1 Asus Eee Pad Transporter (WiFi only, so can use on any tether) that are used interchangeably.

The above is my constant supply of current tech. I also have Orange and T-Mobile SIMS that are used occasionally in my researches.

What you read is what I find, plain and simple. And Talk3G is one of the few forums that allow that unbiased and factual expression without getting hosed down by every brand-x zealot on the planet. Try, just try, and discuss the merits of iOS vs Android on another forum and you'll be hounded off the site in minutes.

And you talk about blinkers?

You have witnessed, and in the past been part of, our journey from the dire old days of the emerging 3G, where the network operators squeezed the pips. You've seen how they've all but killed off Videocalling with punitive pricing. The game, for ages, has been around Voice minutes and Texts. But that game is simply not good enough anymore. Smartphones, led by Apple, have put paid to that old mode of thought. New, lively, encouraging thought is now required and there are few companies that are there yet - Apple and Three are two that are instigators and enablers of the mobility of data to the individual. We, all of us here, eagerly await the other networks and manufacturers to follow. We want them to. We actually want viable competition to Apple and Three, the current status is unhealthy.

So it does go against the grain a bit to be accused of being partial to one above all others when nothing could be further from the truth. We are holding up the likes of Apple and Three to the light, and we are asking the other to raise their game to meet or exceed the bar being set. And as and when the competition compete effectively they will be held as the new bar to be met.

I think it is quite safe to state that Talk3G does not wear blinkers but expresses the truth that is evident to it's contributors. If you feel that is a wrong position to take then I would have to strongly disagree.

[miffed]

I certainly don't feel blinkered !

I am currently running

iPhone 4 (Three) This is my main number - had 3 proved to be in any way inferior to o2 , I would have kept o2 as my main line

Dell Streak (o2- Android) HTC Magic (Vodafone - Android) T-mobile Pulse (T-mobile Android)

I also have a Nokia 5230 , which is SIM free , and shares the T-mob and Voda SIM's.

I also have an iPad 2 on Three - as of last week , you can choose to believe this or not - but I actually went into CPW specifically to try a Motorola Xoom on Talk mobile !

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/buy/MOTOROLA-XOOM-3G-PLUS-WI-FI-TABLET-TK25G-FCON

.. I wanted to get this instead of the iPad 2 !! but the reality is , I tried it and is simply didn't cut it for me , plus I couldn't ignore the fact that the data offering was 10GB short of the Three offering

Over the last few months I have often RAVED about o2 , and the Dell Streak , I have gone on record saying it gives the best mobile browsing experience I have had on a Phone , and a few weeks back I pondered (on here) buying a 7" streak .

Last week I was fighting the urge to buy an E7 - not sure if I did mention it on here , but those that I am friends with on facebook will confirm this

Over the years on this site , I have championed Windows Mobile , Windows CE , Symbian & the communicator range over the years

Yes , I have found the iPhone to be the best , I will not apologise for this , as it is a subjective conclusion , and I can tell you I waste a crazy amount of TIME and MONEY (according to the wife) on trying to find a better device !! If I were the Apple fanboi that some imply , why on earth would I be buying and trying other devices ?

I actually did raise similar concerns in the Mod forum a while back - but the truth is the forum reflects the trends we are following ! I remember when the only phone anyone talked about was the 6680 , then the N95 !

As for Networks , I have almost consistanly raved about o2 for as long as I care to remember - they have simply delivered for me

I spent a long time slating three as I felt they deserved it at the time , and now I have to give them credit ! If I was to simply slate them for all their past crimes , that would be silly , I have to give credit where its due - but I promise you the second my experience drops I will refer to them in the same way I refer to Vodafone now !

[miffed]

Forgot to mention my WP7 adventure ! surely no one thinks I'd buy devices like that just so I can declare them "worse that the iPhone" ?

[3GScottishUser]

Fair enough, Miffed you have explained and I recall lots of chat about lots of technology stuff. But I am sure you will agree about my concerns just how centric things have become lately.

I hope folks look beyond Apple and sample other things and comment on them.

I have become rather reluctant to discuss other devices because one simply feels outwith the 'club' if you don't toe the Apple line here.

Is that surprising?

God knows how many HTC handsets I have seen being bought in my workspace yet there is hardly a word to be said about them here!

I'm sure chat here has influenced folks to buy things, I have done so for sure, but has that resulted in a 'closed user group'?

[hecatae]

hi 3GSU,

I'm not a 3 convert and I'm not an Apple convert.

I am a fan of WindowsPhone Metro UI, but Nokia is doing my head in with their releases being apple secretive, as there is no way to plan for a new device as no-one knows what is coming out, and with Elop stating their will be new devices every couple of months, you will get burnt if you buy early and the device you do want comes out in two months time

Motorola Gleam looks really nice, and is beautiful device using Synergy UI from what I can see.

Motorola are making a new operating system for their devices, will link article etc soon.

[Hands0n]

God knows how many HTC handsets I have seen being bought in my workspace yet there is hardly a word to be said about them here!

I'm sure chat here has influenced folks to buy things, I have done so for sure, but has that resulted in a 'closed user group'?

Sorry mate, but I really do not understand how you can actually say that with a straight face! I brought the Google Nexus One to Talk3G, as I did the Nexus S of late (okay, I won it but that makes no odds, I would have bought it anyway :) ). I have started very many threads on other devices.

There is a very vibrant thread on unlocking the Three MiFi right now, for example, that is drawing in a lot of attention. Google for Unlock MiFi and it is in the top few results!

We are constantly watching the industry and commenting on all manner of matters. Ben blogs quite a lot on here, in addition to posts.

There is no "club" and if you want to write about an Android Advent Vega then fill yer boots. To suggest that we want you, or anyone else, to "to the line" is somewhat irritating. I don't see any evidence of that here and as a Mod I would be inclined to put a stop to any that I see.

You won't find us dissing anything you write and getting all parochial and tribal about a product. We'll read with open minds, and ask nothing but the same of any reader on here. We may not always agree, and if so I hope that we would offer a citation or evidence as to why not. And thats fine too.

Talk3G is not for everyone, we know that. I subscribe to other forums and find that I have to be very careful of what I say, constantly policing my thoughts so that I don't commence WW3. I have to say that it is not an entirely relaxing and entertaining experience. I only persist because these forums have something to offer me in terms of broad user experience of a product. I occasionally bring that experience back here, or shape it into my own and offer it for Talk3G readers to read for themselves.

But I would hate for Talk3G to become like very much of the rest of the forums, where such free thought and expression were constrained and limited by Mod enforcers. If it happens here then I'll be on my way elsewhere.

[hecatae]

I certainly don't feel blinkered !

I am currently running

iPhone 4 (Three) This is my main number - had 3 proved to be in any way inferior to o2 , I would have kept o2 as my main line

Dell Streak (o2- Android) HTC Magic (Vodafone - Android) T-mobile Pulse (T-mobile Android)

I also have a Nokia 5230 , which is SIM free , and shares the T-mob and Voda SIM's.

I also have an iPad 2 on Three - as of last week , you can choose to believe this or not - but I actually went into CPW specifically to try a Motorola Xoom on Talk mobile !

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/buy/MOTOROLA-XOOM-3G-PLUS-WI-FI-TABLET-TK25G-FCON

.. I wanted to get this instead of the iPad 2 !! but the reality is , I tried it and is simply didn't cut it for me , plus I couldn't ignore the fact that the data offering was 10GB short of the Three offering

Over the last few months I have often RAVED about o2 , and the Dell Streak , I have gone on record saying it gives the best mobile browsing experience I have had on a Phone , and a few weeks back I pondered (on here) buying a 7" streak .

Last week I was fighting the urge to buy an E7 - not sure if I did mention it on here , but those that I am friends with on facebook will confirm this

Over the years on this site , I have championed Windows Mobile , Windows CE , Symbian & the communicator range over the years

Yes , I have found the iPhone to be the best , I will not apologise for this , as it is a subjective conclusion , and I can tell you I waste a crazy amount of TIME and MONEY (according to the wife) on trying to find a better device !! If I were the Apple fanboi that some imply , why on earth would I be buying and trying other devices ?

I actually did raise similar concerns in the Mod forum a while back - but the truth is the forum reflects the trends we are following ! I remember when the only phone anyone talked about was the 6680 , then the N95 !

As for Networks , I have almost consistanly raved about o2 for as long as I care to remember - they have simply delivered for me

I spent a long time slating three as I felt they deserved it at the time , and now I have to give them credit ! If I was to simply slate them for all their past crimes , that would be silly , I have to give credit where its due - but I promise you the second my experience drops I will refer to them in the same way I refer to Vodafone now !

you mentioned the E7 on here, and that the symbian way of opening a url on the browser killed the decision, I remember it well

[3GScottishUser]

But I would hate for Talk3G to become like very much of the rest of the forums, where such free thought and expression were constrained and limited by Mod enforcers. If it happens here then I'll be on my way elsewhere.

I agree and Talk3g came about because of the antics on another forum when a deliberate effort was made to support a network who the forum owners had a vested interest in promoting.

I appreciate you have made some previous exclellent contributions about various products but as stated I think lately things have become a little too skewed towards particular products and services. Usually the most upmarket and expensive ones that don't always reflect what mainstream folks are buying and using.

I read with interest your MiFi thread and nearly bought one but Android 2.2 put paid to that when my phone became a WiFi hotspot on demand!

[Hands0n]

... I think lately things have become a little too skewed towards particular products and services. Usually the most upmarket and expensive ones that don't always reflect what mainstream folks are buying and using.

Again, it beggars belief that you say that. If you just look across all of the network's tariffs you will find that there is a price, often between £30 and £45, for the modern smartphone. The iPhone, along with Galaxy S II and HTC Sensation, command the higher end prices, but the latter two are now more expensive than the iPhone! It is a complete misconception that Apple kit is more expensive and unaffordable. This technology, tablet and smartphone, has levelled off in the eyes of the mobile network operators. They have a set fee they want to charge, and no matter the device, that is what they will charge.

Mark my words right now and watch how the new Honeycomb tablets are priced up by the network operators. Then, later, come back and tell me how expensive the iPad is.


... don't always reflect what mainstream folks are buying and using
What? Do you mean like the ZTE Blade aka Orange San Francisco, the sub-£100 smartphone that I have contributed a whole lot to on Talk3G? Its right here, about 18" from my left wrist, on the study table. Or do you mean the T-Mobile Pulse that Miffed wrote legions about when it came out? Yea, you're right, I don't see too many folk with those handsets. Or if I do, they're overshadowed by the 2:3 people I see with iPhones as I move around London.

I did see a Nokia N95 the other day. But I've already written thousands of words on that handset previously, here, on Talk3G.

Shifting sands fella. Thats what you're witnessing. Shifting sands, and we're riding the crest :)

[3GScottishUser]

But some smartphones have been making a huge impact at the £20 a month price point like the HTC Wildfire (which is a pretty well made and fully featured handset).

I see lots more of those in my workplace than either iPhones or Samsung Galaxy S models and Blackberry Curves outnumber HTCs 10:1 thanks to free BBM which is what teens and cash strapped young folks use a lot nowadays, along with their Facebook of course!

In the last year I have only seen two young people with iPhone4s where I work... I could not count how many have HTCs, Blackberrys, Samsungs, SonyEricsson etc. The South East may be quite different because of the earnings difference which I expect but I have not seen any major migration to top end handsets of any make.

[Hands0n]

Free BBM? You are not being serious are you? BBM costs £5 a month out of your PAYG allowance or on top of your contract. How, very exactly, is that free?

Fashions come and go. The BB is on the wane here. The small screen, fiddly buttons, and non-3G of the earlier BB Curves have given way to the touchscreen smartphone. Yes, the Wildfire and others like it are there for cheaper amounts. But in the like-for-like stakes the price points are very similar to (or more than) the iPhone that you're deriding.

Cash strapped people should not be spending their money on smartphones, booze, cigarettes and drugs. That thinking is responsible for a lot of the problems we see around us daily.

If you were pretty much anywhere south of the borders you will witness vast numbers, herds even, of people with iPhones. Yes, and Androids too. This is not the UK's biggest selling smartphone anecdotally. They really are out in people's pockets!

[hecatae]

HTC Wildfire finally has S-Off, if relevant to anyone, and you can get the Wildfire for £10 a month, any more and you are being ripped off. Angry Birds on a QVGA display is painful, plenty of zoom out needed.

now the ZTE Blade, Orange San Francisco is a great example of a main stream phone, I've got one and I've not wanted another device yet. USB Tethering, Wireless Hotspot, official upgrade to 2.2 Froyo, official support by CyanogenMod, etc. all for £80 - £100

[DBMandrake]

I am just a bit concerned that lately this place is becoming a little too Apple and 3 centric.

A look back through the posts provides some hard evidence that the majority of topical discussion has shifted to a narrow range of Apple related issues and I have not seen much in the way of equity in terms of network discussion.

The irony here is that a lot of the "pro" Apple and/or Three discussion on this forum occurs in direct response to you bashing both of them at every opportunity, often times with factually inaccurate or out of date information and/or misleading arguments, which then results in those of us who do use Three and/or Apple products feeling a need to come to their defence.

(Recent examples - "Apple revenue sharing", "iPad Wi-Fi Tethering" and "Vodafone is faster than Three in Glasgow so Vodafone must be faster in general")

It's obvious you're strongly anti-Apple and anti-Three (seemingly to the point of having a chip on your shoulder about them) and that's fine - especially for something like a phone where liking it or not is a very subjective thing, let alone the fact that different people have different needs from a phone. I'm sure you've been burned by Three in the past to have them earn your wrath as well.

But if your arguments are sometimes based on factually inaccurate information or perceived issues and experiences that aren't generally experienced by others or quite contrary to what others experience then expect a spirited (and hopefully civil) debate to ensue.

Regarding Three - as anyone here has probably worked out by now I do use Three, but I would say that I'm pretty even handed about them, if they do something well I'll praise them and come to their defence, when they screw up I can be one of their biggest critics, both here, and on another well known forum. I've been pretty scathing of them in many instances in fact but that doesn't stop me defending them in instances where I think they're being attacked unfairly or in a misleading way.

My biggest criticisms of Three are and will probably remain for the near future - terrible phone based customer service, and concerns about lack of 2G coverage in some areas. These are both real, serious problems, but not enough to get me to switch networks again at the current time, when I get such a good deal on my grandfathered 3pay plan, and in other ways they meet my needs nicely.

On the other hand because I am not loyal to them it's up to them to continue to meet my needs. If I were to move house to an area where I couldn't get coverage from Three they would be gone in an instant, I'm not sure who I would switch to, but I wouldn't hesitate to switch.

I do keep up with the other networks as well - I also have SIM's for O2, Vodafone, Orange, T-Mobile, and Virgin. At the time I switched from Virgin to Three I bought these Pay&Go SIM's specifically so I could check the signal/speeds/reliability etc before deciding who to go with, so I had already tried all the networks before switching to Three. From time to time I still test the other networks to see if their coverage and/or speeds have improved.



Needs some addressing perhaps to remain credible as an independent forum when Apple has 25% of the UK smartphone market and Apple posts here vastly outweigh that proportion in terms of discussion?

Because a few high profile folks have bought into the Apple deal are others who form the majority of mobile users being left out?
I think you're trying to avoid the seemingly obvious conclusion here - people talk about what interests them, and if more people are interested in Apple products then naturally more discussion will centre around them. Market share numbers alone is not an indication of relevance.

Nokia still has a decent market share but there isn't much discussion about Nokia any more, here, or on the Internet in general - why ? Because nobody cares about Nokia any more, they've lost their relevance. I used to be a staunch Nokia supporter, my first mobile was a Nokia, and I used a single model of Nokia for nearly 5 years.

Then the iPhone came along and Nokia lost it's relevance for me and never gained it back. By your reasoning this forum is biased because Nokia doesn't get their fair share of discussion based on market share numbers - ridiculous. "Bought into the Apple deal" makes it sound as if somehow anyone who likes Apple gear has "sold out". Maybe, just maybe, they like and enjoy using it, heaven forbid.

Anybody is free to post an opinion piece on any phone, a review, ask questions about it, discuss pro's and con's of it, nothing is stopping anyone.

Android I would probably not use as my primary phone, but I would have one as a second phone to play around with if I had any disposable income but since I don't, I continue to use a 2 year old iPhone 3GS which does everything I need.

I still like reading about Android though as well as a few other phones, and also the various tablets, I just don't have anything to write about them as I don't own any of them, so I'm glad people like Hands0n are actually going to the effort of writing about these devices...

I don't even have a Mac any more - my several years old Macbook Pro's motherboard died in 2009 and I've been Mac-less ever since, again lacking any disposable income to replace it, so our household now consists of my trusty 2003 Pentium 4 and my girlfriends Dell laptop.

I guess what I'm getting at is I don't think most regulars on this forum are nearly as biased as you're trying to make out. Most of us have used plenty of other stuff (I was a PC guy for years and years before I had a Mac, both Windows and Linux and was still a PC guy when I had a Mac) but we will naturally talk more about the things we enjoy and like.

If you want more discussion about Android (or whatever else you feel is missing) create some! But don't do it by just attacking some other product and then wondering why people leap to its defence and start discussing it even more. ;)