[miffed]

I have been meaning to give Three another go (handset wise) for a while now, I have been more than impressed wirh the Wi-fi , and my daughter has had a BB 9700 for while now with no issues ...aside from a delivery delay , which I dismissed as a blip , but now I have to say I am wondering if this is simply the way Three do business (still ! ) We placed the order , they gave a delivery date , which came and went , the following day we phoned to chase it , and they said they'd had a stock problem and the phone would be with us the following day (i.e. 3 days after the original date ) - FFS why did no one bother to inform us of this delay?
Anyway .......

Ordered an iPhone 4 last week , Delivery date given for Thursday - Thursday comes and goes , no delivery , so phone the number provided (Note - I had to phone them !) and they start asking me to mail proofs of address to them ... and then they can progress the order , now this is not a problem - but why wait till I phone them , after the due delivery date which THEY provided ? Surely someone could have contacted me to ask for addition info ?
Another thing is, why do they EXTRA proofs (on top of my Bank & Card details ) when I ALREADY HAVE AN ACCOUNT with them ?
A clue is in the email address that they wanted proofs sent to domething like "[email protected]" .... this explains a lot as when I bought my HTC Magic , I originally tried to order it from p4u and was given similar runaround , and was eventually TURNED DOWN (again , despite existing contracts with virtually all providers !! ) ... the following day I put the same deal through Vodafone directly and it went through absolutely no questions !

Anyway , I have apologised for troubling them , and cancelled the order !

Seems a shame just as Three are improving in some areas , they are choosing to associate themselves with idiots such as P4U ? - It'll end in tears for Three !!

[The Mullet of G]

This really doesn't surprise me, although its fair to say Three are getting better they are still hilariously bad, especially in regards to all things CS.

My cousin was with them for 5 years and although the network was fairly reliable and he rarely had any issues, the actual customer service and Three as a company however were very problematic, they had serious issues with broken promises and outright lies.

The final straw came last week when Three phoned to offer him an upgrade, after the usual valued customer spiel they offered him a "special deal" knocking £5 a month off an HTC Wildfire, which according to them is one of the best phones currently available in the UK, only when I checked the Three shop and their site I found this was the same deal everyone else was being offered, and also that the Wildfire was frankly terrible.

He called back armed with this new information, I also told him to demand an HTC Desire which is light years ahead of the Wildfire in every aspect. Rather than apologise for lying in regards to the "special deal" they stuck with it, despite the fact we'd already seen the same deal in the Three store and online. Then they tried to claim he shouldn't get the Desire as the Wildfire was just as good and practically the same phone, when he challenged this based on the wildly different hardware spec 1Ghz cpu vs 528Mhz etc they relented and said "oh your right" unfortunately by this point they had already sent out the Wildfire, despite no one actually asking them to do so. This meant he would have to wait till it arrived then phone back amd arrange for the Wildfire to be returned and a Desire sent out.

At this point I'd had enough, and it wasn't even me having to put up with it. I suggested that he visit the carphonewarehouse and pick up a Desire HD, then phone Three to cancel his contract and request they lose his number. He is no longer with Three. :D

[Hands0n]

These are dreadful tales to read. I know that Three are really trying to get their house in order but clearly there are significant Provisioning and Early Life issues that they have yet to overcome. The challenge, for Three, is whether or not they really can overcome them whilst still retaining the off-shore Customer Services team that has been ever present throughout Three's short corporate life.

It is indeed disheartening to read of these experiences persisting to this day. The cost to Three in terms of customer good will and the reputational damage through "word of mouth" is not something that Three should accept anymore. Why will Three's 'top brass' not realise this and do something about this for once and for all. Unless they are running Three as some kind of global loss leader it simply must be in their interests to make the company succeed. The irony is that, if they were to eschew the off-shore Customer Services and bring it in-house, skill it up, that Three would probably be the most successful mobile network operator. It would certainly be capable of wiping the floor with O2 and Orange, and even give Vodafone a good run for its money!

As it is, and continuing to read such tales of woe as above, the expectation can only be that Three will continue to marginalise itself in the industry through what can only be termed "corporate self-harm".

A shame, really.

[miffed]

I just don't understand the Phones4U thing ? - Is there a worse partner they could use for web sales ? ... How about those people you ordered your Desire off Hands0n ? (any news on that by the way ? )
For all my dealings with Three over the years , one of the few +ive things I recall , was that ordering from their website was quick and clean , and delivery was fast ! now it seems they have "fixed" that !

[The Mullet of G]

Three are like a badly constructed machine, instead of working together all of the parts are instead working against each other. They have clearly made substantial investments in terms of network hardware, yet have consistently demonstrated that they are unwilling to invest in customer relations.

They managed to take a customer who was happy to upgrade and stay with Three for another contract term, having been a fairly happy customer for about the last 5 years, and turn him into a Vodafone customer, all because of horribly bad customer service, they lied and then lied some more when confronted about it.

It would seem that miffed's story is yet another example in a long line of horror stories involving Three, and not the exception as you would expect from a network hoping to succeed.

[Hands0n]

How about those people you ordered your Desire off Hands0n ? (any news on that by the way ? )



I'll give the full SP on the specific thread but suffice to say here that the firm went bust, the bank (HSBC) refunded my money but it is under the threat that if the seller can demonstrate that they made the HTC Desire available to me that the bank would take the money back off me! All pretty standard stuff really ...

[Hands0n]

It would seem that miffed's story is yet another example in a long line of horror stories involving Three, and not the exception as you would expect from a network hoping to succeed.

Well, I think that is not quite fair to Three's UK management teams. I have met [some of] them and can testify that they are an enthusiastic and very positive-minded bunch. They clearly see the potential in Three and have a strong belief that they can make things work. So, that is the personal, human side of things.

Then there is the cold, dead, hand of the Financial Directorate's corporate steer and direction. This will have no other motivation but to make, and save, money. There will be a strong element of not being able to see the wood from the trees. Also financial pressures to show revenue and profit while all the time keeping costs down to the bare minimum, across the entire global group. FDs are well known for knowing not a lot other than how to work Microsoft Excel and manage columns of figures. And unfortunately, it is nigh on impossible to plot customer experience, customer satisfaction and customer good will upon such spreadsheets.

And so there must inevitably be a conflict within Three between the visionaries and "customer experience" people and the Finance division. And unfortunately for Three the FD appears to have been on a consistent win since 03/03/2003. He is likely able to demonstrate to Kanning Fok and his co-investors that he is saving shed loads of money by running a single global customer services operation out of a third world services nation.

The trick is to get the top level Board and its members to release Three (UK) from these shackles and allow it to realise the awesome potential that it holds.

That Three has survived this long, under the curse of its own customer services, is a miracle in itself. It is in it's eighth year of business. By now it should have been a top ranking UK mobile network operator.

[phil8715]

The problem with three is everything is done by script. They are not capable of thinking outside the box. I had a similar experience where they tried to offer me a special deal just for me. However they didn't reckon on me having the in store brochure in front of me when they rang me. She said we can offer this, this, & this I politely turned round to them you mean the same deal offered online and in the brochure. The lady at 3 decided it wasnt going anywhere and wished me a good afternoon and hung up.

[miffed]

Well , it's early days yet ...but everything is going fine for me ! (touches wood)

It's funny , because when I judge Three now , I speak from a perspective of not having ANYTHING to do with their CS !! , My iPhone works well - calls connect instantly , SMS /MMS are instant (was starting to notice MMS's taking 24-48hrs on o2 ...WTF ??? ) Data appear good and consistant, tend to get a speed of around 1.5MB nearly everywhere I go (uplink AND downlink ! Well , according to the speedtest app anyway ) Everything is great all the while I don't need any assistance ,
Of course I know I'll regret saying this the instant I have to deal with CS ,but at the moment I am loving Three ! My hope is that I will never have to until the day I ask to cancel the contract , and I am happy to cross that bridge when I come to it !!

[Hands0n]

I maintain that you're right Miffed, in respect to their CS. As long as you don't have to speak with them for any particular reason, and everything is working, then the service is quite superior to other networks in very many ways.

However, come that fateful conversation with Three's CS and [typically] it all turns very sour. If Three ever get proper control over the Indian call centre or, better still, bring it back over here to the UK, they will be a formidable UK network operator.

NB: Of late, I have taken to using my Vodafone-SIM'd iPhone 4 across a Three MiFi simply to get a decent data throughput.
For example, today I was at St Pancras International station, sitting on the High Speed train waiting for it to leave. I was attempting to use my iPhone (with the Vodafone SIM) to do some Twitter, web and Facebook stuff. The experience was dreadful. So I switched on my Three MiFi and used the iPhone for data through that.

A local speedtest from the station revealed the following

Vodafone (3G): 19kbps down, 16kbps up, 780ms ping
Three (HSPA): 2005kbps down, 1573kbps up, 281ms ping

Needless to say, I remained on the MiFi for the duration of the journey.

[Ben]

NB: Of late, I have taken to using my Vodafone-SIM'd iPhone 4 across a Three MiFi simply to get a decent data throughput.
For example, today I was at St Pancras International station, sitting on the High Speed train waiting for it to leave. I was attempting to use my iPhone (with the Vodafone SIM) to do some Twitter, web and Facebook stuff. The experience was dreadful. So I switched on my Three MiFi and used the iPhone for data through that.
Excuse me, but... SNAP! I have resorted to using 3 MiFi all the way back to Canterbury on HS1. Vodafone is atrocious!

Also had to use 3 MiFi on my Vodafone iPhone 4 in the Royal Albert Hall.

Data is so slow on Vodafone these days, I have no idea what's wrong. It's a disgrace.

[Hands0n]

Excuse me, but... SNAP! I have resorted to using 3 MiFi all the way back to Canterbury on HS1. Vodafone is atrocious!

Also had to use 3 MiFi on my Vodafone iPhone 4 in the Royal Albert Hall.

Data is so slow on Vodafone these days, I have no idea what's wrong. It's a disgrace.


LOL, thats too funny - that we're both doing the same thing! I even used my iPhone via the MiFi to hold a Facetime conversation with my lad, and to show off the tech to a curious associate. It worked really well - Three's data speeds were more than adequate to support the call, although the data use for a three minute call were heavy at 12MB.

Vodafone's 3G network is in trouble right now - although I have read that they are undergoing a massive upgrade of their mobile network technology - which in itself could be much of the cause for the crazy disruption we're all seeing on their network of late. It is only a shame that Vodafone have not been a bit more forward with the information. We'd be understanding, but they seem not to be of a mind to trust us with the gritty detail. Corporate attitude to its customers - I see such attitude where I am also, occasionally.

[Ben]

See, I'd love to hear more about what they're doing to improve their network, and if I knew what was going on I'd be much more lenient on them. But the current situation and lack of information is unacceptable.

If I could get a Three Femtocel I'd probably port my number to them :o I think it has come to that.

[hecatae]

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/Mobile_Exec/Vodafone_rolls_out_major_upgrade_of_London_network .aspx


Vodafone and its managed service provider Ericsson are rolling out a major upgrade of the operator’s London network infrastructure. Vodafone has more than 500 sites in the capital and is upgrading every one across central London and the M4 corridor.

Work began in September with 25 sites a day being upgraded until the end of the year. Existing 2G and 3G equipment is being upgraded into single boxes, which freeing up space, cutting energy emissions by up to 30% and future proofing the site for the next generation of equipment such as LTE.

The full upgrade should be finished in ‘a few months’, according to Jeni Mundy, Vodafone’s chief technical officer. The operator is spending around £1m a day across its whole network.

not plagiarising all of it, but it's been going on since September

[miffed]

I may be mistaken - but I am sure I have heard pretty much every operator preaching this "£1m per day on Network improvements" buzzline ?

I have pretty much given up on Vodafone now , I have till June left to run with them , and fortunately a mate had managed to get tacked onto his Staff 30% discount , so that eases the pain a little.

Talk is cheap , I note that Vodafone were bleating about having the "fastest mobile broadband / 7.2mpbs" when they realisitcally only had this in a few sites , at the time (and pretty much still now ) I was getting a pathetic 2 bar 2G signal from them at most of my haunts !
I have no experience of Orange lately (may get a San Francisco just to check things out with them ) but with T-mobile , o2 and Three I have definately seen improvements appear in real-time with the claims of improvement.

I think a lot of people held Vodafone in "Holy Grail" esteem for too long , they simply got complacent , and now they have forgotten how to be a good company and need to learn where they went wrong .

[Ben]

To be fair to Vodafone, they were the best for a long time. Not just that though, they were repeatedly first. I still kick myself for not being on Vodafone when they released the SE V800i. I go weak!

But since when does making a modest alteration to sites (combining the 2G and 3G equipment) completely destroy the whole network? Sorry, I don't buy that explanation as the reason why using Vodafone on my iPhone 4 across Kent is currently akin to paper cups and string.

While Ericsson seem to be struggling with Vodafone's network, MBNL have created something that works for smartphones and broadband.

[The Mullet of G]

So basically Vodafone are spending £1m per day puting the contents of two boxes into one box? That definitely sounds like money well spent. On the upside Vodafone will reduce its electricity bill by 30% and managed to free up some space, because in the future a network wont be judged by the quality of the service it offers, they will be judged by how much free space they have. Maybe next time they could put the contents of one box into a slighter smaller box, just think of the space they could free up and the possibilities that could bring....yes its all quite exciting. :)

[DBMandrake]

Glad things are working out for you so far miffed, and I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I have to wonder how much longer that will be the case.

I've been using Three for over a year (on an iPhone 3GS) and their 3G coverage has improved in leaps and bounds, (to the point where I think it's clear they have the best 3G coverage) and backed up by Orange 2G fall back the overall coverage was hard to beat. Unfortunately it is now clear 2G is going away. :(

I've been following discussions on multiple forums for a few weeks now about Three turning off their 2G roaming with Orange in different areas and it has now become clear that Three are turning off ALL Orange 2G roaming coverage nationwide by the end of the year. (They're doing it in area by area phases rather than all at once, presumably to spread out the tech support load, as lost coverage will be generating a lot of support calls)

It was first thought - and even suggested by staff on the Three blog at one point, that only areas with "excellent 3G coverage" were having 2G roaming turned off, however this has been disproved by at least half a dozen first hand examples of small country towns that don't and never have had 3G coverage having their 2G coverage switched off - leaving them with precisely zero coverage.

People in affected areas losing coverage are almost universally being let out of their contracts without penalties, sometimes even being allowed to keep their handsets with little or no penalty - in the vast majority of cases Three CS are putting up no resistance at all to requests to cancel - something unheard of for Three, so they clearly know that what they're doing is affecting a lot of people.

Multiple people talking to CS to cancel their contracts due to lost coverage have all been told that the 2G roaming agreement with Orange is coming to an end by the end of the year - not just in their areas, but nationwide.

This is absolutely staggering to me, I can't believe that Three management would make a decision as monumentally stupid as this without either being forced by Orange, (perhaps by raising prices to punitive levels) or by their own bean counters desperate to see a short term profit at the expense of losing what shreds of reputation they had gradually built up in the last year or two.

Even in areas with "good" 3G coverage, there will always be those places inside certain buildings, especially commercial buildings, where you simply can't get a 2100Mhz 3G signal, previously you had Orange 2G fall back, now you have nothing.

Not to mention there are or soon will be large numbers of small towns and roads which have gone from 2G coverage to no coverage at all. Who wants a phone network where you can't make an emergency call from a snow drift on the side of a highway ? :(

There is a mass exodus of people already, those affected by lost coverage at home or work, as well as those who rely on a signal while travelling. Word will soon get around that "Three's coverage is crap" again, and what chance they had of gaining new customers will be lost by word of mouth, once again.

Anyone relying on 2G coverage on Three at home or work or other important places would be advised to start checking out the alternatives...

Ironically one of the best alternatives (coverage footprint wise at least) is probably T-Mobile, who Three helped to bolster in the first place with the network share agreement. T-Mobile's 3G footprint is now almost identical to Three, have their own 2G network with seamless switch over, and now have opt-in roaming on Orange 2G, so total coverage should be even better than it was on Three. (Same 3G coverage, T-Mobile 2G + Orange 2G)

Sigh. Why do Three have a knack for clutching defeat from the jaws of victory ? :(