[getti]

This was posted over on the Vodafone eForum and was deleted about as quick as they change a T&C or a Policy.... which is a few minutes it seems.

Yet another FAIL in the long list that is becoming Vodafone i am sorry to say.

I was a big fan of Vodafone and always considered them a 'premium' network and did not mind paying more for a better service or choice of phones/plans.



Changing £5 for 25mb to £5 for 5mb mid contract and even though customers pointed out this was a change in the T&C, This was ignored and has just gone ahead for people anyway with no way to get out.

Charging for going over the data allowance mid contract for those people on 500MB packages

Dropping the discount of 25% ETF to 2% is another fail. Why not just drop to 17.5% so we do not pay the VAT, especially as we are not using 'x' months at £x per month why pay VAT on nothing?

Stopped selling 'Box Only' phones in store for those people who needed to replace their phone or wanted a SIM Only plan but with a Vodafone branded phone to get full access to Live! and 360


After seeing the message tonight that yet another benefit of being on Vodafone was being taken away for customers and yet again MID CONTRACT so there is not a single thing that existing customers can do about it I just had to speak up.

Vodafone are loosing not only customers but their reputation which will impact them more as word will spread that they offer you great deals and then when your in contract change it all around and there is not a thing you can do about it.

In the space of 2 months I have gone from wanting to add a 2nd line onto my account at a cost of £35 every month to staying on my existing account and keeping my plan going to wanting to get out as soon as possible. I would cancel early but now that the 25% policy has surprise surprise... changed that will not be an option

Plus on a personal level I am unhappy with Vodafone as I have been in credit with them for 3 months by paying more than my bill...... my last bill which was online from 8th June said I was in credit by £165.14 so I called to have that put back into my bank which was agreed but a few minutes later i called back and got that stopped as I would rather it sit there on my bill and not have to pay for a few months.

Yesterday I get a text from Vodafone out of the blue saying my payment is now overdue and I need to call 191 as soon as possible. So i called up and get told I am not in credit I OWE Vodafone £127 for a bill which is outstanding since 26th June. I ask them how when my bill I got was saying i was in credit and this is the 1st i heard about it and get told a Direct Debit which was due in May was not taken so it shows as owing on my account now... nearly 2 months after the event with no notice.

I was also told my account was due to be suspended if it was not paid (even though i was only told there and then about this money) and was told if it is not paid on Friday the number will be suspended until payment is cleared and this would effect my credit rating.

How the hell can someone pay a bill they have never seen or known about unless they see it or get a call about it then be threatened to have the line suspended if its not paid within a few days.

This last bit is a personal rant and only effects me account I know but I am just fed up with the shambles that is Vodafone. The eForum are good, the team do a great job and trying to keep people happy but 191 most of the time are a nightmare, Vodafone HQ are messing around with policies and T&C mid contract whilst basically sticking 2 fingers up at the customer who has no choice but to accept

[Ben]

Times are a-changing to be sure. There has been something resembling panic across the mobile operators recently, Three being the exception, as they clamber to brace themselves for years of economic underperformance, intense competition, and the dreaded data monster that's about to knock their networks over.

Terms are tightening, and flexibility is disappearing. Vodafone appear to want things clean and simple, and I think that's what you're seeing here.

Unfortunately the customers they're upsetting also happen to include some of the most vocal online.

They're between a rock and a hard place right now in terms of the market since T-Orange happened. They're trying to get their house in order. Either this is a precursor to good things to come, or Vodafone is going into defensive (destructive) mode.

[The Mullet of G]

This doesn't surprise me, I switched from Vodafone about 3 years ago and they were failure cascading then. Things that should have been simple like taking direct debits on the stated date, not before it and not long after it, or even offering a decent level of customer service, things you'd expect from a quality service just seem to be beyond Vodafone. Times are definitely changing and Vodafone are struggling to keep pace, which is a shame as I hoped they'd sort themselves out.

I was considering a possible return to Vodafone for my iPhone 4 when I get it, but I think I'll look elsewhere.

[Ben]

I have to say, I'm with them for their network and, as far as I know, for me it's still the best around.

I don't know how much longer that will be the case, but while it holds true I'm holding on to Vodafone.

[miffed]

Just in case my opinions on Vodafone are not clear ....

I feel they now occupy the space that Three occupied in their earlier years , Some networks have poor coverage , some offer poor value , some offer poor CS , and others have problems with their administration with Billing issues , ... But since early Three , no-one has managed to manifest all these problems at the same time in one , poor excuse for a Network as "well" as Vodafone ...... And how they have done this while maintaining this mythical reputation for quality is absolutely beyond me !!!

[DBMandrake]

Coverage and perception of network quality is a very location dependant thing - Vodafone might have good coverage down where you are Ben, but up here they're a joke :p

Little to no 3G coverage, and I still only get a barely usable 2 bar 2G signal (no 3G even outside) with poor voice quality (the same low-bitrate "robo-talk" effect I hear on O2) from them at home - all the other networks (yes even O2) give 3G indoors at home, let alone outdoors! (Of those, O2 is the worst 3G though, with 3 and T-Mobile the best, and Orange not far behind...)

While any network can give a good showing in a densely populated or well off area that they've chosen to invest in, I think a truer measure of overall network coverage is to find out who give good coverage and speeds in small out of the way towns and/or remote areas, and it ain't Vodafone, at least north of the border :p So while the Vodafone network might be good in some places, they seem to have neglected an awful lot of other places, with barely passable 2G coverage let alone 3G.

[miffed]

barely passable 2G coverage let alone 3G.

^^^ This is my experience of Vodafone ! , Somehow a lack of 3G is more acceptable if you have a solid 5 Bars of 2G , but pretty much everywhere I go (*) I get a 1-3 bars of 2G type of experience - Compared this to o2 & T-mobile (both of whose networks are regularly criticised for poor coverage) and I find I am largely UNABLE to shake of a full 3G signal.

While I agree it is a Postcode lottery , it is amazing how this can Vary over a small area ! Ben and I are in the same town - yet our experiences of both o@ and Vodafone are polar opposites ! I sometimes hear people say "X networks coverage is good / bad around here" , but unless that guy lives/works/ plays in EXACTLY the same postcode as you , his experiences could well count for nothing !

* Recently acquired 2 bars of 3G at my home address !!

[DBMandrake]

I think it goes to show just how many holes in the coverage all the UK networks have, it's just the holes are in different places, so what is a hole for one network may not be for another! Because of that, everyone receives a different experience.

It came as something of a shock to me moving from New Zealand, just how poor the overall quality of coverage of all the networks here is - yes I get a lot more 3G coverage here than I did in NZ on my iPhone 3G/3GS (at least on T-Mobile/3/Orange) but that's partly due to some of Vodafone NZ's 3G coverage - rural in particular, being on 900Mhz - not supported until the iPhone 4, so I could only make use of the 2100Mhz 3G in towns and cities. (And fall back to 900Mhz 2G elsewhere)

And yes, there are remote places like isolated beaches or the middle of a forest where you can't get cell phone coverage in NZ (some might consider the former a plus :) ) but generally if you're anywhere populated you can get a signal, indoors or outdoors.

Here you can have a good signal on the street and walk into a building and lose all coverage entirely, from all the networks. (Let alone going into a shopping complex or an underground store)

I don't remember ever losing coverage in NZ walking into a building. I would never be waiting for a call and think to myself "hmm, if I go in this building I won't get that call".

Yes a lot of buildings in NZ are wood while nearly all are stone or brick here (which attenuates a lot more signal) but there are still a lot of stone/brick/concrete/steel-glass commercial buildings in NZ, and I didn't lose a signal in those either.

Yes Vodafone NZ uses 900Mhz for 2G which penetrates buildings better than the 1800Mhz 2G used by Orange/T-Mobile or 2100Mhz 3G, but O2 and Vodafone UK both use 900Mhz 2G as well - what's their excuse ?

Main roads and train lines here (especially the latter) often have complete signal drop-outs, while I never experienced a dropped call in NZ while driving, unless I was way out in the middle of nowhere. In any even slightly built up area or main highway coverage was continuous.

It really does puzzle me how coverage can be so poor here - while the networks might have an impressive looking percentage of coverage on paper, that seems to be population coverage not geographic coverage, and with tens of thousands of tiny holes all over the place in populated areas...

Somehow a country like NZ which is slightly bigger than the UK in land area and yet has 1/12th the population seems to be better covered for mobile signal - even though there are only two main competing networks.

(Competition on price is much better here in the UK though, data prices are ludicrously expensive in NZ)

[Ben]

I don't understand why network quality in the UK is so poor either, never have. We're such a densely populated tiny island. Ok, we've got a few hills, big deal!

Maybe if our regulator wasn't so deep in the pockets of the mobile operators that it actually gave a damn we wouldn't be in this situation.

Btw, my house in the woods doesn't have any mobile coverage from any network other than Vodafone - full stop. So it's a no brainer for me!

[Hands0n]

I do worry quite a bit about the things I read on Vodafone of late. They have never manifested [for me] any of the problems and issues that get regularly reported on here and elsewhere. Their CS has been astonishingly good with a few exceptions and my means of dealing with those is either to call back or engage the Web Relations team who are absolute stars.

But of late I see Vodafone re-trenching and making a real dogs dinner of "how" they are doing this. Mid-term contract changes and Vodafone's wily means of getting out of their very own clauses smack of being at the very least borderline illegal if not completely so in fact. Sure, their clever lawyers may well be taking the contract law to its very extremes but they will draw the attention of the Euro regulators if they are not careful - although they need have no fear of our very own OFCOM who are completely inept.

I have been steadily moving across to SIM-Only deals with Vodafone, always ready and able to make the jump to another network should the fancy take me. I have never been in this mind before, but the antics that I witness are making me feel very insecure in relation to Vodafone as a preferred supplier. Is this something that Vodafone believe they should be doing to their customer base? Even the mighty can fall, and Vodafone is no exception. They could ignore Three as a minnow amongst wales, but that would be a bad mistake to make.

Even Vodafone's international reputation is being challenged by the Euro regulator who has had to force the mobile giants, kicking and screaming all the way, to generate more liquidity in the market by bringing down punitive tariffs. My own [very recent] experiences with "Global SIM" suppliers suggests that the writing is very much on the wall.

[getti]

Seeing as I have a long time with Vodafone left (well 12 months so not TOO long) i doubt in fact no i KNOW i will not be signing up to another 18 month deal with any network, The amount of phones I go though and buy sim free there is no point me signing up to a long term to get a free phone I will only keep for a few weeks/months and then buy another sim free.

Sim Only is the way for me as soon as possible. Also if things change and I leave T-Mobile as an employee I get to transfer to a contract and keep 50% off for life so am quite happy to just move onto Flext 40 for £20 a month and get all the benefits and not actually be tied into a contract just carry on a month by month basis.

The Orange/T-Mobile/Three network should ensure top notch coverage, the discount helps and the 1GB/3GB/10GB data options as extra packages look good (yes even 10GB!)

Vodafone have 11 months to turn things around for me, if it gets any worse I will just remove my extras on the account and cut it to the bare minimum and just make the move earlier.

[Ben]

i doubt in fact no i KNOW i will not be signing up to another 18 month deal with any network
Welcome to my world! Quite frankly I find it insulting that the mobile networks think we need to be indebted to them for such lengths of time just for the privilege of having a mobile phone. Seriously, where do they get off on that one? I've never liked the subsidy model but these days where we're pushed to 18 and even 24 month contracts I find the whole construct to be repugnant.

SIM-Free is still too expensive, the operators still have enough sway to pull significant discounts from manufacturers. But I do think that this is changing, at least in part thanks to Apple (though they're making it more expensive for the operators, not cheaper for the consumers...), even if it isn't changing fast enough.

I don't have any mobile-related commitments at the moment. Happy days.

[DBMandrake]

Are they able to extract any handset discounts from Apple though ? I doubt it. Nokia, and some others, probably. I think the reduced upfront price is 100% subsidy in the case of the iPhone, so when you do the numbers you're saving money by buying up front and going on either a rolling monthly contract or Pay&Go. (depending on network and your usage patterns)

Provided you can afford the upfront price of course. Perhaps people could go back to the good old days where you save up for something and buy it within your means, rather than buy it on hire purchase, credit, or subsidised contract :D (Ok, who am I kidding, but that's the way I work though :) )

I think part of the shift from long term contracts to SIM only is a change in value proposition and loyalty between the networks and the handsets. It used to be that you joined a network and they gave you a handset - handsets didn't do much except make calls and text, (maybe a 4 line wap browser) and most of the "value" was in the network and what services they offered. You were loyal to the network, not the handset. Handsets were disposable and people would upgrade from one model to another willy nilly to get some silly new feature but stay with the same network. This is how the networks liked it.

Now that has all been turned on it's head by very desirable handsets like the iPhone, which must be the first handset that was so desirable that people were willing to switch to an (in the case of AT&T and O2) inferior network just to get it. Now you're loyal to the handset and it's brand and app ecosystem, not the network. The only thing the network had going for them was an exclusive deal with Apple, and the fact that the handset is SIM locked. Now that SIM free iPhone's (and Android devices etc) are available, and nearly all networks support them, the network is now out of the equation.

You buy the handset you want and remain loyal to that, the network has just become a dumb pipe that provides you connectivity to the internet and calls and texts. Their geographic coverage, speed, reliability and tariffs matter, (and maybe CS, if you're someone that needs them a lot) but none of their other "services" matter any more. Wap gateway - whats that ? Expensive ring tones and mp3's ? Forget it. All that gimmicky stuff is irrelevant now. We just want calls, texts, and data, and lots of the latter. Move town and can't get decent service any more ? Switch provider to a network who does have good coverage in that area and port your number. Job done, no 18 month lock in of near useless coverage. Lost your job in the recession ? No risk of tarnishing your credit rating by being unable to keep up payments on an expensive 18/24 month contract you could previously afford. (This last point could be the most important of all...)

Quite frankly given their behaviour, networks don't deserve loyalty, they should be competing tooth and nail to gain and keep customers in a free market where a customer can leave the network when they want, with a minimum of hassle and take their cherished handset (and phone number) with them, and that's pretty much where we are now, except those people still stuck in the old 18/24 month carrier subsidy network loyalty model have yet to catch up...

[Hands0n]

Provided you can afford the upfront price of course. Perhaps people could go back to the good old days where you save up for something and buy it within your means, rather than buy it on hire purchase, credit, or subsidised contract :D (Ok, who am I kidding, but that's the way I work though :) )


Yea, but lets face it ... you are a New Zealander living in Scotland ... hardly a role model for the spoiled rotten British :D



I think part of the shift from long term contracts to SIM only is a change in value proposition and loyalty between the networks and the handsets.


Yup, I reckon thats spot on ... it is a subtle change ... but one that is slowly and steadily gaining a foothold in the British psyche led, yet again, by Apple's delivery model of the iPhone. Look how long Nokia has had their own on-line retail outfit [and even a shop in the West End, albeit briefly] and you can see how big a changer Apple has been with their iPhone. People will, inevitably, become more used to buying SIM-free.



Quite frankly given their behaviour, networks don't deserve loyalty, they should be competing tooth and nail to gain and keep customers in a free market where a customer can leave the network when they want, with a minimum of hassle and take their cherished handset (and phone number) with them, and that's pretty much where we are now, except those people still stuck in the old 18/24 month carrier subsidy network loyalty model have yet to catch up...

The EU regulators are pressing for the Number Port time to be reduced to only a few hours. That will come soon enough despite OFCOM siding with the UK mobile network operators (all except Three) in wanting an extension of several years to comply. People will not want to have to be beholden to 24 month contracts - especially as they start to understand the benefits of 30-day SIM-only contracts. I would like to see contract-free SIM-only with a matching time period to end the contract as to Number Port. Imagine, within a few hours of making a decision you could be switched across to another mobile network operator and with no residual obligation to the operator you've just left. All it would take is for the contract model to be revamped (or regulated) across the industry and its a job done.