[a_ukboy]

Ok now the dilema really starts, so i want the iphone 4 but can't decide which network so thought i'd start a poll, so want to know which network people think is the best for basically the best phone??

[chagle]

I already have TMOB sim in my 3GS I have a terrific SIM only deal so I'm hoping to get a TMOB PAYG iPhone 4and slip my SIM in once it's been cut down or swapped by TMOB for a micro-sim..! :-)

[miffed]

There is an interesting thread on Macrumours. , where a CPW guy has looked into their computer systems to work out what is going on , at least as far as CPW is concerned ! , the guy seems legit and earlier in the thread he posted pics of the screenshots.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=10109554&postcount=1958

He is saying that o2 will not be selling Contract only , Orange and Vodafone will be doing PAYG , and the Vodafone units appear unlocked . Not sure whether this is the "final score" or others may be added

[Hands0n]

I would expect Vodafone to be unlocked as that is what they do with all of their contract handsets. However, their PAYT are almost always locked!

That said, I am interested to know how Apple will sell these. There is nothing in it for them by locking to a particular network.

[DBMandrake]

He is saying that o2 will not be selling Contract only , Orange and Vodafone will be doing PAYG , and the Vodafone units appear unlocked . Not sure whether this is the "final score" or others may be added
I wouldn't put a lot of faith in this - it seems very inconsistent with how the networks are currently selling the 3GS. Vodafone to sell it unlocked on Pay&Go ? Seems unlikely when they currently only sell it on contract and DO lock it! (All the networks currently sell the iPhone locked and Vodafone are the only network who will NOT unlock it for you)

My prediction is that the networks will all sell the iPhone 4 locked to their networks, but some networks will offer some options for official unlocking.

Meanwhile, Apple will either sell them unlocked (seems to make sense now that all the networks have it) or more likely will continue with the status quo - the phone is locked to the first network whose SIM you use to do the initial activation.

[Ben]

I didn't know that was currently the case wrt Apple locking the handset to the first SIM you put in.

I'm definitely sticking with Vodafone (though I'd like my Visual Voicemail back, boo hoo) but am still figuring out the SIM thing. I'd gladly pre-order it from Apple if it wasn't for the micro SIM issue (I'm not cutting). How the hell have they not released details yet, it's the pre-order tomorrow!

[DBMandrake]

Well that's how I believe it has worked for iPhone's bought in an Apple store since Vodafone and Orange became official carriers - the phones are marked in Apple's database as unlocked, but can only be activated with O2, Vodafone, or Orange SIM's, and once that initial Activation is done the phone is permanently locked to that network. (Unless the network later allows official unlocking)

I know of one case discussed on another forum where a user bought an un-activated O2 iPhone direct from Apple with the intention of activating it on O2, paying O2 to unlock it, and then having it as an unlocked iPhone which he could use primarily on Vodafone, (but still be able to SIM swap or change network easily later) and he accidentally did the initial iTunes activation with the Vodfaone SIM - and wham, the iPhone was locked on Vodafone. Vodafone refused to unlock it (as they don't offer official unlocking) meanwhile O2 said they could not unlock it as it was not activated on their network. Ouch!

I don't know if he was able to get Apple to swap the phone or whether he just put up with it being locked forever on Vodafone.

Whether the situation will change come the release of the iPhone 4 and the fact that all 5 networks have the iPhone, I don't know. The sensible thing for Apple to do would be to sell the phones they sell without contracts from their Apple stores (and online store) unlocked, but the pessimist in me says this will not happen :(

[MrBriz]

Quick question. I've recently seen that Orange and T-Mobile and merging (well they are being owned by one company, but the brands will still be seperate)

What I'm wondering is if this new "Super Network" will be worth jumping onto. Surely when the two networks link up that will be able to provide better coverage than the other 3 networks (3, O2 & Voda)

I also see that 3 people have voted for Vodafone. Why is that? Is there customer service good? What's the 3G data rate like?

[DBMandrake]

Not sure why you leave 3 out of the equation with Orange and T-Mobile. The reason why T-Mobile's 3G coverage is so good now is precisely because of the 3G site sharing between T-Mobile and 3. Most of the new 3G sites that T-Mobile has added over the last 18 months are actually 3 sites. (And vica versa - most of 3's new sites are actually existing T-Mobile sites)

By October, 3 and T-Mobile will have fully unified and shared all their 3G sites, which they have been working on over the last 18 months or so. (The 3 and T-Mobile sites in my area just merged a few weeks ago, and performance went up dramatically on 3 for me at home with peak speeds up from 1300kbit to almost 3000kbit, and average speeds up from 800kbit to 2200kbit)

The parent company of Orange and T-Mobile will be enabling roaming between the two networks at first (probably some time later this year) and eventually the networks will be integrated. Orange will benefit from the coverage of both T-Mobile and 3 sites, as they will be the same by then. Likewise 3 will also benefit from Orange coverage as 3's 3G sites are merged with T-Mobile.

By the end of the year customers of Orange, T-Mobile, and 3 will all have the same coverage equal to the sum of their current individual coverages, although speeds will still be different between the individual 3 networks, especially 3, who still keep their own separate core network. (Only transmitting sites are shared, whereas eventually Orange and T-Mobile will merge core networks)

Personally I think Vodafone and O2 are going to struggle to compete against this 3 operator mammoth network in terms of coverage once it's fully complete. (Which explains why O2 and Vodafone are ramping up their site sharing to try and compete)

[MrBriz]

I didn't know about the cell sharing between 3 and T-Mobile!

Well I guess the question now is, which of those 3 networks give the best "package"?

I know that the price plans haven't been released yet, but can anyone on one of those 3 networks (3, T-Mobile, Orange) say what the network is generally like?

I think I will be moving away from O2, because I think in the coming year or 2 they just won't be able to compete with this soon-to-be mammoth network :D

[a_ukboy]

Well i really don't know who to go with now, o2 is a definate no no as the coverage experiance i had with them for 18 months with the Iphone 3G was just shocking... Vodafone seems the favourite as i have a suresignal and a family member works for them so i get the staff discount of 30% off the line rental, I have found in general that when i do get a 3G signal it works well with Vodafone, but like o2 there coverage is not the best.. I am very tempted by Orange cause they have good coverage and with the current merger with T-Mobile and the mast share with Three (via T-Mob) i think they will be a great network to be on, but then the same could be said about T-Mobile and Three.... Hmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

[DBMandrake]

Oh the agony of choice :D

[a_ukboy]

I know... hehehe

[DBMandrake]

A year ago we would have been complaining about having to switch to O2 to get the iPhone ;)

The real problem is not so much that we have all this choice, but the fact that all of the networks have such significant flaws and issues that there isn't a clear winner, and it's really down to the individual which networks flaws affect them or annoy them the least. (Whether it's coverage in their area, or other things)

As I have my current iPhone unlocked and on Pay&Go, I don't think I would ever willingly go into a contract, I'd rather buy it outright unlocked so that I'm free to change networks at any time. As I can't afford it right now I'll stick with my 3GS until I can afford to buy it up front it, rather than get stuck in an 18 or 24 month contract where you end up paying a lot more in the long run anway...

[DBMandrake]

News flash. Apple to sell iPhone unlocked from Apple online store: (And presumably Apple physical stores too)

http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone

For anyone thinking of getting an iPhone on Pay&Go it makes sense to get it directly from Apple, unlocked. That way if you ever decide to switch networks, you're only a PAC code and a new SIM away from taking your baby to a new network :)

Edit: Page seems temporarily down, I've saved a copy of it though. £499 for 16GB, £599 for 32GB, or £419 for an 8GB 3GS.

[Ben]

Looks like I'm keeping my Vodafone SIM-Only iPhone tariff! ^5

[Hands0n]

I went to O2 purely for the original iPhone, the 3G and finally the 3GS. In that time O2 fully lived up to all of my expectations. It was the most dire network operator that I have ever been with on contract. It was every bit as bad as I remember it being back in 2004. I vowed never to use O2 ever again. And it is that which fills me with doubt and trepidation with regard to their network share with Vodafone. At best it will improve O2's coverage. God knows something needs to! And at worst it will drag Vodafone down into the mud that O2 currently occupies.

I say No 2 to O2

[miffed]

Been told by a reliable source that Three make their announcement tomorrow (weds)

[MrBriz]

Just wondering, does any other network support visual voicemail or is it o2 only?

[getti]

Only O2 but there is a free service from HulloMail which is a different version of Visual Voicemail but will work on ANY network

[Ben]

The other networks really do need to roll out Visual Voicemail, there's no excuse. Laziness!

[miffed]

I am surprised Apple are not insisting on it TBH. After all , this was one of their justifications for not unlocking iPhones originally !

[a_ukboy]

The other networks really do need to roll out Visual Voicemail, there's no excuse. Laziness!

I'm wondering what kind of strain VV has on the networks, after all it is a data usuage application and maybe that's the reason why the other networks seem reluctant to support this?? I loved the VV when i was with o2 but i remember that the network use to collapse under the data strain when they where the only network with the Iphone, so 50% of the time i would have to get my messages the normal way!! Interesting to see if the networks overseas support VV or even ask Apple's view of this??

[DBMandrake]

From what I've heard, the visual voice mail platform runs on Apple XServes located at the carrier, and it's quite a substantial investment of money and effort from the carrier to integrate it into their systems and get it working to a high degree of reliability and scalability, and many carriers just don't see an economic incentive to do it.

Also I think its a case of Visual voice mail not being the big deal Apple thought it would be when the iPhone first released. Yes it was a novel feature and they were first (?) to do it, but it seems while there are a vocal minority who love the feature, the majority of people just don't care - I certainly don't, as I'm not someone who really uses voice mail, and I'd have to be getting several voice mails a day for it to be any use to me. (And thank god I don't :p )

Apple doesn't even really talk about visual voice mail any more, and given the low percentage of carriers that are now supporting it (as more carriers are added, almost no new carriers take it up) I get the distinct impression that Apple considers it an optional, legacy feature, and they'd rather have a lot of carriers for the iPhone than just a few who all support visual voice mail.

I remember when Vodafone New Zealand first got the iPhone 3G in July 2008 they promised they would have visual voice mail by the end of that year, but then a few months later they went quiet about it, and to this day they still don't have it, so I can only guess that the numbers just didn't add up.

Another reason I've just thought of is loss of revenue stream - if they currently charge customers per minute to listen to voice mail, (even if you're just listening to the same message a second time) then why provide voice mail access for free where the message is downloaded once and can be played as many times as you want ? It could be as simple as that...

[Ben]

I don't even seem to get a voicemail notification like I used to on O2 when Visual Voicemail was down. If it wasn't for Vodafone's text I'd never know I had anything. :(

It doesn't help that Vodafone's own voicemail is so incredibly poor. Maybe it's time I looked at alternatives.

[DBMandrake]

Do you mean that you don't get the new voice mail chime with the red circle with no number on the phone icon on Vodafone ?

Although I think it's a standard GSM feature, only some networks seem to support it.

Virgin and T-Mobile do, and I used to like that persistent voice mail waiting icon when I was on Virgin. (And the fact that I could have a different sound for real text messages and voice mail) When I moved to 3 I lost that feature - 3 just send you a text message when you get a voice mail, as it sounds like Vodafone do. Pity. I did like 3's voice mail system the most of the networks I've tried but now that it's 15p/min instead of free that's soured me on it, so I don't really use it.

[a_ukboy]

Orange release Iphone 4 plans and prices!!

http://iphone.orange.co.uk/plans/

[Ben]

@DBMandrake - Not on my iPhone, no. I've always had voicemail notifications on other handsets with the same SIM.

I used to get the solid red dot on O2 when VV was down.

[Hands0n]

Only O2 but there is a free service from HulloMail which is a different version of Visual Voicemail but will work on ANY network

I did a fair bit of research on HulloMail and , having been a user of the O2/Apple Visual Voicemail, I can say that I reckon HulloMail ( http://www.hullomail.com/uk/index.html ) takes it to the next level.

I have persuaded the entire family to set up HulloMail on their Android, BlackBerry and iPhone kit. It really is the dogs nuts!

What are you waiting for? :D

[DBMandrake]

I've been using my 3G on the OS 4.0 Gold master for a few days, and tonight an official carrier settings update for 3 UK has just popped up in iTunes for the first time, so I installed it to test it and also looked inside to see how they've decided to configure things. Here's the summary:

1) No carrier icon yet. (just the skinny plain text 3)

2) 3G/2G switch in Settings -> Network is hidden. (No surprise there) The phone should still roam automatically to 2G when needed though.

3) Settings -> Network -> Cellular Data Settings page is completely hidden, which means you can't see or edit any of the APN settings. (Orange does this as well)

4) MMS is configured in a way that should also work on 2G.

5) The voice-mail button is configured, (standard voice-mail only, no visual voice-mail) and the "call forwarding enabled" annoying prompt when making calls is eliminated.

6) Tethering is enabled! Not only that, but they have set up tethering on the same APN as normal phone data, which means that Tethering works without an additional data plan of any sort, and should come out of your standard bundle of data. (Shared with phone usage) Expect to see an announcement from Three about this ;) Tethering should also work on 2G. Tethering is going through the handset APN, so the adult/content filter will be applied to the PC which is tethering. Maximum Bluetooth tethering clients is set to one. (Plus one USB)

7) They've added links in Settings->Phone-> 3 UK services, to Three different customer services numbers and a link to a (not yet operational it seems) iPhone optimized version of their portal.

In conclusion - disabling the 3G/2G switch and Cellular Data Settings is annoying, but the rest looks ok for most users, and Tethering is a pleasant surprise :)

[DBMandrake]

Looks like Apple have added the ability to push carrier settings updates directly to the phone over the air in OS 4.0:

http://www.tipb.com/2010/06/18/rogers-fido-push-ota-iphone-carrier-settings-update-ios-4-handles-on-device/

Previously you had to sync your phone with iTunes with the appropriate SIM inserted before iTunes would offer to install an update carrier settings bundle.

I just tried removing Three's bundle, (which can only be done easily if jailbroken, otherwise it takes a full restore) rebooted the phone, went into Settings->General->About, and a few seconds later I saw the same popup described in the article, and it successfully installed...

[Ben]

Tethering is big news, that's great. As is OTA carrier updates, that's really smart - assuming the phone can get a data connection without the settings in order for the OTA update to take place!

I do like these settings bundles. From a consumer point of view they're just easy and non-cryptic, and from an operator point of view they allow easy updating of iPhone's currently connected to their networks with appropriate settings (and restrictions).

[DBMandrake]

Tethering is big news, that's great.


Well, as long as it's on purpose and they decide to keep it, here today, gone tomorrow for all we know! :p (Ok maybe I'm a pesimist)



As is OTA carrier updates, that's really smart - assuming the phone can get a data connection without the settings in order for the OTA update to take place!

I did a little bit of testing of that - it seems that it checks for a settings update every time you go into Settings->General->About, and it might conceiveably do it on a schedule too. (once a week ?)

It works over either 3G data or Wifi. (It still worked if I turned off cellular data and left wifi on)

It's probably designed to update existing carrier settings bundles - in which case you presumably already have working APN settings installed, but I notice some networks now give basic data connectivity with no APN - both Three and Virgin do for example, and this allowed the Three bundle to download over the air even though there was no previous bundle and the APN was blank.



I do like these settings bundles. From a consumer point of view they're just easy and non-cryptic, and from an operator point of view they allow easy updating of iPhone's currently connected to their networks with appropriate settings (and restrictions).
Now that they can be pushed over the air, it's a lot easier to keep the customer base up to date. I'm guessing it must check once in a while (just like it does for app updates) as well as manually when you go into the About screen. That gives a nice simple procedure for CS staff to advise to force an update - go to Settings->General->About, wait 10 seconds, press OK.

While testing it I discovered that O2 has already pushed out an update that is newer than the bundle in the 4.0 GM firmware - O2 UK 7.2 (7.0 was in the firmware image) and as well as that, they now have seperate bundles for Pay&Go customers that set the payandgo.o2.uk APN properly - no more manual editing of those settings every time you insert a Pay&Go O2 SIM.

The interesting thing is they are matching on a GID code ? I haven't come across that before but I'm guessing it's some kind of batch code, and their Pay&Go SIM's come from certain batches ?

The supported SIM's section of the bundle looks like this:

SupportedSIMs

23410_GID1-99FFFF
23410_GID1-61FFFF
23410_GID1-67FFFF
23410_GID1-85FFFF


Normally there would only be the MCC/MNC - eg 23410 for O2. Anyone know what this GID code is ?

Also just from looking at the bundle contents, it appears that O2 have also enabled Tethering on Pay&Go ? I can't test it as I have no credit on my O2 SIM, but they have used the same type-masks for the APN's as Three's bundle, which should in theory enable tethering over the handset APN....curious...

[MrBriz]

OK, having had my iPhone 4 on three for a few weeks now I can same I'm about as disappointed with three as I was with o2. Actually I'm appalled with the signal. A lot of the time I pull my phone out of my pocket and it has no signal for a few moments. I guess three's 2G/3G switching isn't anywhere near as good as other networks.

Now the question is what network to try next....

[DBMandrake]

I don't think you'll find it's anything to do with switching between 2G and 3G - either you're getting coverage or you're not. Were you on O2 with the iPhone 4 or a previous generation iPhone ?

Either Three's coverage is not very good where you are, or perhaps what you're seeing is a symptom of the iPhone 4's antenna woes:

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/electronics/2010/07/apple-iphone-4-antenna-issue-iphone4-problems-dropped-calls-lab-test-confirmed-problem-issues-signal-strength-att-network-gsm.html

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-confirms-iphone-4-antenna-problems-and-so-do/

If Three is the only network you've tried an iPhone 4 on, you'd either need to try the SIM's from some other networks, or try your SIM in an earlier model iPhone to get a comparison.

I also suspect there could be a bug in iOS 4 which affects network scanning, because since updating my 3GS to iOS 4 I had a case where I went into an underground store with no coverage, and when I came out the phone was on No Service for a full 20 minutes while outdoors until I finally got tired of waiting and rebooted the phone - getting signal back again. Another nearby iPhone also on Three did not have the same issue, and I've never had this happen to me before on 3.1.3 or earlier :(

[The Mullet of G]

If it is antenna woes then you could maybe use a bumper case to reduce the effect, or if you don't want to ruin the look of your iPhone 4 then I have personally devised the perfect solution to this issue, I will be contacting Apple about it in due course, in the meantime check the attached picture for the solution.



Behold the iPhone 4 Signal Mitt™, with 3 uber cool colours to choose from. :)

[Ben]

lol @ the gloves :D

Doubt it's an antenna problem if it's coming out of your pocket with no signal. Definitely time to try other networks!

When I was on O2 I started to think they'd rebranded as "No Signal".

[MrBriz]

Dammit, Well I guess it's t-mobile then. They are the only other network that do a plan at 15 per month on a monthly contract that suits my needs :(

[DBMandrake]

While it's worth a try (if it was me I would get Pay&Go SIM's from all the main networks and try them for coverage in your area) bear in mind that Three and T-Mobile share most of their 3G masts now, and by October will be sharing all their 3G masts, so you may not notice an improvement going to T-Mobile depending on whether they have already merged coverage in your area or not.

[The Mullet of G]

Via the use of Occam's razor it becomes clear that your trousers could be made out of lead, either that or the antenna could be touching your leg, in which case you'll want to get one of the attached. The all new iPhone 4 Signal Pocket™ it lines your pocket and prevents this very thing. :)

[MrBriz]

I've switched (again!)

From o2 - great customer service (all UK!!!!), poor 3G signal (well it was always dropping between 3G and 2G), OK 3G speeds 150kBps
Then 3 - not so good customer service (all overseas). Good 3G signal (well it always held onto a 3G signal even when it was weak), great 3G speeds - 300-400kBps, patch coverage when in pocket. I used to take it out of my pocket and it would often say no signal.
Now T-Mobile - Good customer service if connected to one of their UK call centers. Good 3G signal. Great 3G speeds*

*I'm only getting good speeds with T-Mobile beacause I complained. Basically T-Mobile don't turn on HSPDA (3.5G) as default on the SIM only plans. This cripples the internet speeds. I was getting around 30-40kBps with really bad ping times (anywhere from 400ms - 20,000ms!!!!!)

I phoned and basically complained and asked if they could enable HSDPA. I then stated if this fixed my download speeds that I would have to move away from them as they said it would cost me another £5 per month. The CS rep went off to get it enabled, when she came back she said that she was able to get it enabled for free (Handy!) I'm now getting speeds around 250kBps, which I find completely acceptable, espically as I'm not having to pay any extra for it!

In regards to people saying about image compression..... I don't really notice it. I've visited my flickr stream and download one of my full size images and it looks fine. Granted the smaller images in safari look bad, but once I opened the original and downloaded it it looked fine, even when zoomed in.

Well we shall see how T-Mobile fair over the next month. I've only really got two more networks to try if this doesn't work, vodafone and orange.