[miffed]

I have just been looking into the release date (and why it has been delayed) , and it has got me wondering a bit !

It cannot be denied , there is huge demand for these devices , and from talking to people I know , and on various forums , it is not simply Apple die hards that wamt them either ! A lot of them are iPhone / ipod Touch owners who can immedietely see the attraction of a "giant ipod touch" .

Now , with the iPhone we saw an interesting thing (or at least I did ) - Apple fanbois bought it first , and the rest of the world made noises along the lines of "Why on earth would I buy something like that when I can have a better specced N95 / HTC touch / LG Prada ?? "
But , over time , pretty much all of these nay-sayers that I know ended up getting one in the end , to the point now where we have 3 in my house and 2 out of my 3 collegues have them ...... at work I get to "look after" customer phones , and I have to say iPhones are overwhelmingly the most popular handset left.

Of these people , more than a few have gone on to buy Mac's off the back of their iPhone purchase .

Now , along comes the iPad - I wonder how many people that have never looked further than Windows , will buy an iPad (again , I know LOADS of PC'ers that will be doing just this !! ) and will effectively get "springboarded" into the Apple ecosystem ? ...My guess is that that the iPad could have a greater effect than the iPhone/IPT did in this respect !

Apple have always been seemingly happy with their "small slice" of the OS market , but I an wondering whether the iPad could (indirectly) sway a huge amount of the Windows brigade to see sense , erm , I mean switch to OS X ?

[Ben]

Given the immense popularity of this device that's still barely even shipping I definitely think we'll see some sort of uptick in Mac sales. The hooks in the iPhone OS just make it such an easy progression. Is this Apple's intention? It's hard to say, especially when, as a company, their focus appears to be shifting increasingly away from computers.

The next OS X update may well be a good weather balloon for the future. Snow Leopard is a beautiful refinement of an operating system that really arrived with 10.4 Tiger. But it's just that, a refinement. If Apple are serious about making gains in the computer space then something more radical will be needed next, along with a technological upgrade to bring 'new' features such as Blu Ray, USB 3.0, and eSata to the Mac - not to mention touch screen displays and who-knows-what-else. It would make sense, to me at least, if Apple's 'next big thing' was the reinvention of the Mac itself.

[miffed]

See I have got this vision that , over a few generations ... the OS running on the iPad and the one that runs on "proper macs" will be be almost identical , or at least close enough that iPad owners would feel familiar with it , this would kill the "fear" of OSX , and win lots of switchers.

[Ben]

Which rather begs the question... will Apple start selling Mac apps via iTunes?

Not exclusively, I wouldn't have thought, but surely a Mac store would gel the platforms together rather nicely - especially if Apple promote easy iPhone OS and OS X development, i.e. Mac-style write-once-run-anywhere.

[DBMandrake]

See I have got this vision that , over a few generations ... the OS running on the iPad and the one that runs on "proper macs" will be be almost identical , or at least close enough that iPad owners would feel familiar with it , this would kill the "fear" of OSX , and win lots of switchers.
I can't see them ever becoming identical in the way you describe.

The core of iPhoneOS and Mac OS X are *already* largely the same under the hood, same kernel, and a subset of the same BSD subsystem, system daemons, and API Frameworks, *except* for the user interface frameworks (UIKit on the iPhone, also known as Cocoa Touch) which are completely different to those on Mac OS X. The whole reason they are entirely new and different is that they represent an entirely different user interface paradigm - you can't shoehorn a mouse interface into a touch device and expect a good experience, and Apple realised this from the beginning.

This is the reason the iPad runs iPhone OS and not Mac OS X in the first place, and all apps ported from the Mac to iPhoneOS must have their UI redesigned from the ground up to suit the touch interface. Before the unveiling of the iPad a lot of tech pundits were speculating on whether the "iSlate" would run a scaled up version of iPhoneOS, or a scaled down version of Mac OS X, and I say that all those who suggested the latter missed the point entirely, and failed to see the reason why Windows tablets have repetedly failed in the marketplace. (Shoehorning a "full scale" OS and a mouse GUI into a small touch device)

There were a lot of things I was unsure about the iPad before it was announced, but I was 100% certain it would run iPhoneOS and not Mac OS X.

So long as Macs continue to have a mouse based GUI, the iPad and Macbooks will run a different OS, (at least on the UI surface) and I really don't see a problem with that.

[miffed]

I think you I didn't explain what I meant very well there ! , I am not saying the iPad / iPhone would actually run the same OS per se , I mean that the iPad / Iphone / Mac would look visually compatible and ssimilar , to the point the someone could step off an iPad onto Mac and know exactly what they're doing ... in a similar way to how they could proabably step from an iphone to an ipad now.

[DBMandrake]

No, I understood you perfectly - my answer was that no, a (good) touch based interface like the iphone/ipad is fundamentally different to a mouse GUI interface, and so as long as Mac's continue to run a mouse/keyboard based interface, the interface will not be visually or functionally similar to the touch based interface of the iphone/ipad, and there would be no benefit to doing so, only detriment.

[3GScottishUser]

Yep the Apple 42" wheelbarrow will debut soon.

It will have no connectivity other than Wifi and will come boxed and ready for viewing HD content.

The barrow will be an extra at £499 and will have a powered varient at £799.

You will be able to use next generation cellular services with a costly additional adaptor (£299) to view HD content.

All your existing apps for your iPhone and iPad will be available in HD for a small fortune.

It'll be fab and will filt easily in any small transit van.

[miffed]

...Just wanted to bump this , as I am aeeing myself as a bit of a Nostradamus on this stuff latlely ......


http://www.apple.com/uk/macosx/lion/

I'd say I hate to say I told you so .... but TBH I love saying it ! thats twice this week ! :D

[Ben]

They want OS X to be as familiar an experience for all the iPad and iPhoners as possible. Clever. It'll probably work, too.

Still, we'll not be seeing domination by the Mac any time soon - they're just trying to keep growth there I think.

[The Mullet of G]

The Launchpad looks like a great new feature, and the story of how it evolved from iPhone to iPad is erm touching, albeit to the other 91% of computer users it looks a lot like they ripped off Windows desktop. :)

Also last time I checked OS X market share had stalled and is now going backwards, it peaked at 5.3% and has been heading back down for at least the last 4 months. Short of Microsoft releasing at least 2 or 3 Vista's back to back its hard to see things changing for OS X and Macs, as its not the OS that scares most people off, its the price and walled garden approach to hardware.

[Hands0n]

Having just spent yet another four hours this weekend uninfecting a family member's Windows PC I am reminded of why I took the plunge to OS X. Three years on and not a single re-build, re-install or anything even close to the Windows experience.

But hey, if the lemmings are happy with their shiny shiny then who am I to buck their trend. As long as OS X remains in the minority the Virus and Malware community have richer pickings than OS X users. That suits me just fine.

[The Mullet of G]

If I'm not mistaken the first home computer to fall victim of a virus was an Apple back in 1982. Also the classic Mac OS thats pre OS X was rife with malware which prompted changes to how the OS worked, most notably they removed autorun. Fast forward a bit and Mac OS became insignificant so people largely stopped wasting time coding malware for it. But the last 2 years or so have seen OS X malware start to become more prevalent and Apple are playing a dangerous game, as a result the average Mac user is complacent and clueless about security, it is only a matter of time before there are tears here and I'll be right here to enjoy them. :)

[Hands0n]

And Windows users are so much more savvy - which is why the viral and malware infections are so prevalent in that environment!

Its not about firsts - but about the state of play. Right now, and for quite some time, the profile of OS X (and its forerunners) has been such that there is not a liquid enough market of victims to be had. That may have changed slightly, but nonetheless it is significantly harder to invade OS X as it is Windows in all of its incarnations. That is not to say that OS X is bullet proof, just that it is not quite so simple.

None of that takes away from the idiot at the keyboard who will open all manner of unknown email and attachments, or will visit all manner of malware websites, or get phished etc...

But my point stands.

[Ben]

I do wonder if (when?) we'll see some nice iOS malware, given the success of the platform. As a lucrative target I'd imagine few others best it. Are even Apple's tight reigns enough to stop a new wave of viruses that'll wreak havoc like never before? Safari, going by the success of the unlockers, may well offer the way in.

Until someone hurls the first stone, however, there's little to be concerned about. Yes, we could all install AV, but what good will that do when it's scanning for squat? At least by shipping devices in a properly locked down state and requiring user authentication before accessing system level components OS X and iOS are relatively safe havens to all but the most naive of computer users.

[The Mullet of G]

And Windows users are so much more savvy - which is why the viral and malware infections are so prevalent in that environment!

Its not about firsts - but about the state of play. Right now, and for quite some time, the profile of OS X (and its forerunners) has been such that there is not a liquid enough market of victims to be had. That may have changed slightly, but nonetheless it is significantly harder to invade OS X as it is Windows in all of its incarnations. That is not to say that OS X is bullet proof, just that it is not quite so simple.

None of that takes away from the idiot at the keyboard who will open all manner of unknown email and attachments, or will visit all manner of malware websites, or get phished etc...

But my point stands.

Lets look at the number of Windows users taking proper security measures and using AV software, now lets look at Mac users, who is being more savvy? The number of infected Windows based machines is always going to be higher due to them outnumbering Macs by about a billion to one.

If Windows is easier to invade than OS X then why does OS X fall first every year at Pwn2own? The guy who breached it used one of 20 exploits he found using a simple 5 line Python script, and he said there are loads more. Claiming OS X is secure was fine back in 2007 but things have changed.

Indeed it is easier to fool the user into doing something silly than it is to breach the computer head on.


I do wonder if (when?) we'll see some nice iOS malware, given the success of the platform. As a lucrative target I'd imagine few others best it. Are even Apple's tight reigns enough to stop a new wave of viruses that'll wreak havoc like never before? Safari, going by the success of the unlockers, may well offer the way in.

Until someone hurls the first stone, however, there's little to be concerned about. Yes, we could all install AV, but what good will that do when it's scanning for squat? At least by shipping devices in a properly locked down state and requiring user authentication before accessing system level components OS X and iOS are relatively safe havens to all but the most naive of computer users.

I think running any computer be it a PC or a Mac without proper AV software is a little naive in this day and age, you only have to look at a recent incident involving Linux where an infected package on a repo somewhere went unnoticed for months due to lack of AV software to actually notice it. Giving end users the impression that they are immune to malware is always going to end in tears.

Unfortunately iPhone isn't as well locked down as some may think, Vincenzo Iozzo and Ralf-Philipp Weinmann took just 20 seconds to lure an unsuspecting user to a malicious website at which point with absolutely no other input from the user the phones entire database of sent, received and deleted text messages was stolen, they can also do the same with emails, contact data or your photos. Safari is pretty much the weak link on any system it would seem, but with the wealth of people jailbreaking and digging around in iOS its only a matter of time before we start seeing other attack vectors used and some mean malware popping up.

[Ben]

I don't agree that it's naive to run a Mac with no AV software. There just aren't enough threats out there to make it worthwhile, and any big new scare is going to be all over the media likely long before the AV companies even update their detection engines anyway. That's the problem with virus (etc) detection, always playing catchup on new threats, so unless there's enough existing malware applications to scan for (that are easily spread) then there's no point.

[The Mullet of G]

Steve Jobs doesn't agree with you on that point neither would any IT professional worth their salt, hence the reason they started bundling a basic anti-malware solution in OS X Snow Leopard, only they didn't bother mentioning it to anyone. If you sit back and wait for the media to alert you to threats then its already too late. Also you do realize that decent AV software doesn't merely rely on updated virus definitions to protect the end user? They also use heuristic analysis among other methods to spot new malware, not that its always successful but given the choice I'd rather have that extra protection.

Currently Koobface has a low threat rating on Mac, but only because its implementation is flawed, word on the street is that will soon change.

[Ben]

Eh? What AV is bundled with Snow Leopard? None that I've seen.

Apple sell AV software, they sell all sorts. They can't tell people there's no point using it (even though there's no point using it...) because the moment they do you just know some threat will emerge that makes them look stupid :)

Any Mac user that wastes processor cycles on AV in the current threat climate is bonkers crazy.

[The Mullet of G]

Eh? What AV is bundled with Snow Leopard? None that I've seen.

Apple sell AV software, they sell all sorts. They can't tell people there's no point using it (even though there's no point using it...) because the moment they do you just know some threat will emerge that makes them look stupid :)

Any Mac user that wastes processor cycles on AV in the current threat climate is bonkers crazy.

http://www.techeye.net/security/apple-secretly-updates-anti-malware-for-mac-os-x

It would seem that the average Mac user is pretty naive about security....or the basic features of the OS they use. Rather than be honest about malware Apple instead pretend it isn't happening, this I feel is a dangerous game especially in an ecosystem of people who need hand holding. Any Mac user who thinks his computer is secure is bonkers crazy.

[hecatae]

Having just spent yet another four hours this weekend uninfecting a family member's Windows PC I am reminded of why I took the plunge to OS X. Three years on and not a single re-build, re-install or anything even close to the Windows experience.

But hey, if the lemmings are happy with their shiny shiny then who am I to buck their trend. As long as OS X remains in the minority the Virus and Malware community have richer pickings than OS X users. That suits me just fine.

and it's for that reason I run Linux, and failing that BSD looks and functions well

[Hands0n]

and it's for that reason I run Linux, and failing that BSD looks and functions well

OMG, If I put my brother in law on Linux or BSD he'd not cope for any length of time at all. Windows really is for the common man (to use a very dated expression)

[Ben]

I've never been able to make head nor tail of desktop Linux. It is, IMHO, a rather sucky experience!

I'd fear retribution for my words if it wasn't for such misery market share backing me up.

[Hands0n]

I rather like Ubuntu, and that particular distribution is getting more and more digestible. If you're a bit of a hack though, there are plenty of Linux distros to keep you amused and occupied. These days I tend to opt for the more sedentary approach to personal computing. I want it to work, first time, every time, simply, because generally I have too much to do and too little time to do it. So the last thing I want is to have to hack my PC into some mode of functionality before I can use it.

That said - I do appreciate the ability to get under the hood in OS X occasionally, particularly where the UI is not being particularly helpful.

[The Mullet of G]

Linux totally blows, also why does Ubuntu have to be so brown? Really brown is not a good colour for an OS. I just recently found out that its illegal to play DVD's on Linux in some places and it also doesn't support stuff like Netflix and even if it did it would suck due to glitchy Flash performance. Is this really what people expect from an OS in 2010? Linux on the desktop is officially dead. :)

[Hands0n]

Linux totally blows, also why does Ubuntu have to be so brown? Really brown is not a good colour for an OS. I just recently found out that its illegal to play DVD's on Linux in some places and it also doesn't support stuff like Netflix and even if it did it would suck due to glitchy Flash performance. Is this really what people expect from an OS in 2010? Linux on the desktop is officially dead. :)

I would like to have seen Linux succeed more than it has done so. But my opinion is that Linux is a victim of its very openness. The talent and effort is watered down across the very many distros, infighting occurs, alliances are formed and broken. All of this is to Linux's detriment. There is a lot to be said for a well-invested-in closed code OS from a single manufacturer, regardless of any individual affiliations.

Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of Open Source - even promoting and using it in the workplace, but just not in the OS itself where fragmentation and polarisation are inevitable. The thing is, had Linux been conscripted to such a close source regime the usual torrent of protest and indignation would have been levelled at it as is with other closed OS.

I think that Linux is a very long way from dead, officially or otherwise. The OS is in use in commerce and government the world over. Close to home, for example, you will find Linux in every single HSBC branch worldwide where the OS [finally] displaced OS2 Warp (I kid you not) that had persisted into this century. Not at all the hallmark of a dead OS, methinks.

Returning to topic - I have to wonder if there is a future for Linux on the tablet format device. iOS is purpose built and works really well. Importantly, it scales well. Android is a close second in that respect, but even Google want something different for tablets. Windows is wholly unsuitable, as is OS X and as would be an OS like Linux for all of the same reasons - that they are not designed at the outset for finger use, and so compromises can occur.

So does that make the iPad and iOS a prelude to something bigger? I think so. The year 2011 is likely to be the year of the tablet, finally. Hopefully innovation will occur to challenge the iPad at least, better still, to exceed it. I would not like to see the industry struggle against the iPad as it has struggled against the iPhone (three years plus gone by and still not a strong or completely superior alternative). For Apple to get its way constantly will see that company become careless and slack in its performance. That would be bad for the consumer, definitely. It would also be bad for industry if it didn't have a bar to reach.

[hecatae]

Linux totally blows, also why does Ubuntu have to be so brown? Really brown is not a good colour for an OS. I just recently found out that its illegal to play DVD's on Linux in some places and it also doesn't support stuff like Netflix and even if it did it would suck due to glitchy Flash performance. Is this really what people expect from an OS in 2010? Linux on the desktop is officially dead. :)

er Ubuntu has been purple since 10.04 released in April 2010?

the codec for playing DVDs is closed proprietary source, if you have not paid for it, why should you be able to use it for free, that's software piracy.

anyone notice Youview is going to be built on Linux?

ChromeOS is built on Linux, I take it that you will not be interested in the Netbooks Google releases later this year?

LG have just announced a Tegra2 based Android Tablet for next year first quarter, that's how to destroy your christmas sales, I can see the Ipad being refined.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/03/lg-pad-coming-in-early-2011-with-android-honeycomb-dual-core-t/


Last we heard from the Korean tech giant, it was canning plans for a Froyo slate and looking forward to a more suitable iteration of Android, which a senior official at the company has today clarified to mean Honeycomb, describing it as the "tablet PC-version" of the OS. He's even gone beyond the call of PR duty in placing a release schedule for the 8.9-inch LG Pad in the first quarter of 2011, boasting that it'll come with a dual-core Tegra 2 chip inside.

oh and http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/03/samsung-announces-new-7-inch-super-amoled-panel-makes-first-gen/


Now Samsung Mobile Display is set to debut a new 7-inch Super AMOLED panel at the FPD-International exhibition in Japan in two weeks, ahead of full production in mid-2011. Its 1200 x 600 resolution is a bit odd, wider than the Tab's current 1024 x 600, but more pixels in the same space are generally a good thing. That's all we know at this point, and of course there's no confirmation that this will indeed find a home in a next-generation tablet, but don't let that stop you from speculating in comments about what else the OLED Tab might offer.

[The Mullet of G]

I would like to have seen Linux succeed more than it has done so. But my opinion is that Linux is a victim of its very openness. The talent and effort is watered down across the very many distros, infighting occurs, alliances are formed and broken. All of this is to Linux's detriment. There is a lot to be said for a well-invested-in closed code OS from a single manufacturer, regardless of any individual affiliations.

Don't get me wrong. I am a fan of Open Source - even promoting and using it in the workplace, but just not in the OS itself where fragmentation and polarisation are inevitable. The thing is, had Linux been conscripted to such a close source regime the usual torrent of protest and indignation would have been levelled at it as is with other closed OS.

I think that Linux is a very long way from dead, officially or otherwise. The OS is in use in commerce and government the world over. Close to home, for example, you will find Linux in every single HSBC branch worldwide where the OS [finally] displaced OS2 Warp (I kid you not) that had persisted into this century. Not at all the hallmark of a dead OS, methinks.

Returning to topic - I have to wonder if there is a future for Linux on the tablet format device. iOS is purpose built and works really well. Importantly, it scales well. Android is a close second in that respect, but even Google want something different for tablets. Windows is wholly unsuitable, as is OS X and as would be an OS like Linux for all of the same reasons - that they are not designed at the outset for finger use, and so compromises can occur.

So does that make the iPad and iOS a prelude to something bigger? I think so. The year 2011 is likely to be the year of the tablet, finally. Hopefully innovation will occur to challenge the iPad at least, better still, to exceed it. I would not like to see the industry struggle against the iPad as it has struggled against the iPhone (three years plus gone by and still not a strong or completely superior alternative). For Apple to get its way constantly will see that company become careless and slack in its performance. That would be bad for the consumer, definitely. It would also be bad for industry if it didn't have a bar to reach.

Agreed fragmentation is always going to be a problem especially for a minority OS. I don't think Linux is a dead OS, far from it, but I do think its chance of becoming relevant on the desktop is dead. Linux is always going to have a future in servers and imbedded devices etc, and it'll likely always exist in some fashion on the desktop, but its hard to see it ever pushing above 2% market share, it might not even reach 1% again.


er Ubuntu has been purple since 10.04 released in April 2010?

the codec for playing DVDs is closed proprietary source, if you have not paid for it, why should you be able to use it for free, that's software piracy.

anyone notice Youview is going to be built on Linux?

ChromeOS is built on Linux, I take it that you will not be interested in the Netbooks Google releases later this year?

LG have just announced a Tegra2 based Android Tablet for next year first quarter, that's how to destroy your christmas sales, I can see the Ipad being refined.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/03/lg-pad-coming-in-early-2011-with-android-honeycomb-dual-core-t/



oh and http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/03/samsung-announces-new-7-inch-super-amoled-panel-makes-first-gen/

See I would know that Ubuntu 10.04 was purple if it hadn't failed to load both times I tried it, so the last experience I had was the rather brown 9.10. :)

Oh no, software piracy this is an outrage something must be done. :D

In regards to my interest in Googles upcoming netbooks, no not even slightly. I already tried ChromeOS and it was hilariously bad, it was like my nightmare vision of future computing, it felt like being stuck inside a little box with some holes to look out of.

I also don't have much of an interest in tablets for now, as they currently don't offer anything I really require, thats not to say the Tegra2 based LG doesn't look impressive though.