[Jon3G]

Just a quick poll to understand the views of the forum

Who do you think will lead the 3G war over the next 18 months?

Please also state your reasons

Please also bear in mind the full range of 3G services not just the fun side

EG
Datacards

[Jon3G]

I Voted for Voda, but meant Orange lol

I beleive Orange will lead the way because of the heavy marketing and the reputation for Innovation. The good coverage backed by the excellent support will lead the way for ORange.

The well rounded CS support all under one umbrella really helps Orange to be a world leader

BTW

I am selling my 6630 to go to Orange when the 6680 arrives. Voda sent me a brand new 6630 because I was having problems instead of a refurb one, they sent me a new one all boxed up. SO have just left it boxed and I am waiting for the right time

[Ben]

I've voted Orange purely because of OTV coming out. They've already got the O Music Player and Fireplayer Symbian applications for download on O World, which is a step in the right direction, and although the O Music Player needs a massive overhaul in terms of sound quality at least there's an application that manages the database of songs. I prefer that over Vodafones browse-and-download offering.

I also think O offer competitive data rates and reasonable tariffs - they just need their 3G handset range to improve, which is exactly what's going to happen over the next 18 months.

[stitches]

I've tried Voda 3G, but i'm very disappointed with their content and actually find Three better for the things I want. With the Nokia 6680, i'm finding Three an excellent (did I say that lol) network.

Ultimately, my feeling is that Orange will be the market leader, but the networks have to offer free browsing as consumers will be scared of running up large bills which in turn will hamper them spending any money on 3G products.

[@NickyColman]

I voted Orange! So far they seem to be ahead of the pack! 70% 3G coverage is reasonably good and far better than O2's current 3G coverage (the less said about that the better). Also with Orange launching Orange Tv, i think this will draw even more people into 3G!

I agree with stitches that customers need to have "in-portal" browsing for free! Much like the way Three have done with their own. Only make "off-portal" browsing chargeable!

It would be easier to understand for the customers!

Aaaaanyways, ORANGE RULE! LOL!

[Hands0n]

I voted for Orange also. I am a 2.5G user of theirs and went to Three for my 3G handset. I will ultimately converge back to a single (3G) handset come contract renewal and I really don't see Three as being the choice.

Jon3G makes the point ably. Orange has the CS sewn up like noone else has. That, alone, brings them head and shoulders above the rest. The technicalities of the network are almost secondary to support. Content with Orange seems to be rapidly on the up, and in the right direction (not so much of the Chav stuff).

I definitely feel that Orange will be The market leader for 3G over the next 12 months at least.

[Ben]

Interesting results so far. I think, despite Vodafone's attitude, we mostly accept that Three and Orange are the main players. So, here's their coverage maps, 3G coverage being the darker colour on both, so you can see how they compare.

What strikes me is how Orange's 3G coverage looks a bit like a bomb's exploded and hurled 3G sites across much of England, where as Three's 3G coverage has clear 'links' between the major concentrations.

I would imagine this is almost certainly because of the call handover issue on Three. They have had to identify routes (ie major roads) where a continuous service will have to be provided. This has resulted in coverage that looks a bit like a spiders web. Orange, however, have the freedom to concentrate their 3G coverage in hotspots. Their fully-implemented 3G-GSM-3G handover means you can pop in and out of 3G areas without call disconnection being an issue. It also means that Orange can cover areas of very high population density, and so have a high percentage of population coverage, with fewer sites than Three. Three, on the other hand, will be forced to implement a higher percentage of actual geographical coverage unless they want their customers to experience mid-call disconnections as they move around.

I'd say that gives Orange a pretty clear advantage at the moment, though Three's coverage map looks more impressive IMHO.

[timothythetim]

I voted three, but almost more in hope than in expectation.
The fact that three have very cheap tariffs means that a lot of people will be introduced to some very good 3G handsets. There is no way I would have a 6680 on any other network beacuse I simply couldn't afford it. I can't really afford a 30 quid a month contract, let alone paying anything for a phone. My brother also has a 3G phone and that is only beacuse he got such a good deal with three. My only gripe is the walled garden wich takes away most of the benefits of 3G but I can see why they are doing it - the amount of crap I have bought from Planet3 in the past month is ridiculous. I am not looking forward to my first bill.

[Jon3G]

Dont you think 3 are expensive for content and anything other than tariffs?

[timothythetim]

Dont you think 3 are expensive for content and anything other than tariffs?
How do you mean?

[Ben]

I think he's asking if you think the Planet3 content etc is overpriced. I still can't believe their BB streaming charges... oh well!

[Jon3G]

Yes, that is what I am asking

[chaslam]

I think that their tariffs are cheap and their content is overpriced. I Think most people would rather have a cheap contract and expensive services then an expensive contract and cheap services. Dont forget its not always three what sets the price. I am sure MTV have a say on what price to set. Just out of interest how much is it to download a music video or news video on vodafone and orange?
If however you buy the video value add on then I think it becomes great value.

[Jon3G]

I have no idea dont bother.

[timothythetim]

Yes, that is what I am asking
yeah, the three content is unbelievably over priced, but because of the walled garden a fair few idiots (myself included) buy it because there is nothing else on offer.

[Hands0n]

Video Value on Three makes for a reasonable way of playing around with content, Video MMS and Videocall, albeit in limited quantity for the latter. For a fiver a month it aint half bad - but the newer content is not being included, it seems.

The thing with content, I think, is that it holds a "geeky" interest for many of the likes of us keenies. But what of the general punter? Are we, as a nation, really so hooked on stuff like BB that we need it on our phones for 75p/min?

For all round service, and never mind the price, I think Orange has it in spades and that the others only follow, with Three being bottom of the pile.

[Jon3G]

I think the video content pack is great value

[davidlove]

My take on "content" is that it will eventually become generic because the providers - BBC, Sky Sports, Big Brother, whoever, will want to reach the maximum number of eyeballs.

The present situation, with locked phones, customised interfaces, portals etc. reminds me of the old AOL "walled garden". It creates as many problems as it solves for the operators and handset manufacturers and in my view is unsustainable.

Once the operators realise that they are just ISPs, phones will be sold SIM free and flat rate billing will become the norm.

The winner will then be the operator with the deepest quality of network, not the sexiest interface or content.

That's why my vote went to Voda.

[Jon3G]

Thats a very good point. I am not interested in how something looks aslong as it performs and the quality is there

[@NickyColman]

I agree with you there DavidLove! I think the Operators have to take a more isp-like approach! At the moment, everything where pricing and content is concerned its just a mess! They need a uniform pricing structure ie flat rate fee! That way they will get more people using if they are safe in the knowlege they arent being ripped off!

[Ben]

Unfortunately the last thing the networks want to become is ISPs, and I think we're going to see them fight hard to prevent that happening and protect their bottom line. Vodafone especially is hugely content based and possibly the most brand-centric of any of the networks.

I also agree that from a consumer POV the networks need to become ISPs. Whether it will actually happen is another thing altogether - none of the networks are indicating a move in that direction currently.

[Hands0n]

Hang on a minute. What is in it for the Mobop if it goes all ISP stylee? To retain incumbent revenue amounts the "standard charge" would have to be huge, surely. What am I missing? :confused:

Or is the suggestion being made that from an infrastructure point of view (i.e. handsets and network) they become ISPs and make their big monies from content provision as a separate and stand-alone venture or division?

I agree totally that the current situation is very, very confusing. To possibly misquote Groucho Marx slightly "This contract/tariff is so simple a 4-year old child could understand it. I cant understand a word of it, quick, go get me a 4-year old child!". Duck Soup seems somehow appropo :)

Perhaps we really do need a Sanity Clause!

[Hands0n]

Just for the record the actual quote is ...........

Why a four year old child could understand this.
Run out and get me a four year old child,
I can't make head or tail out of it.

Hmmmmmmmmmm, even more appropriate :)

[3g-g]

I think what Ben was trying to get at is the fact the networks want to provide content and also be in control of the delivery of the content (via the network). They want to retain complete control, the don't want 3rd parties getting in on the action.

I suppose thinking about it there's 4 networks, well, 5, whereas referencing it to the ISP model there was only one transport path, i.e. BT. They had the monopoly, but no-one was going to want all their content provided by British Telecom.

It's still to early to tell, at the moment the operators have an advantage. They send you all you settings. The keep the brand in your head, it's all over your handset. The advertising is for their products, via their portal, via their APNs. I think they do a good job of keeping you local even though you can head off at any button press into the interweb. ISP is choice. You can pick any number of them, all you need is a telephone line.

If the content is good via Orange World or Live! et al, then the ops may be onto a good thing, but as they all want the data traffic to be the main stay of their networks I can't see how they'll keep away from being classed as ISPs. It's exactly what they'll be doing, providing internet to users. I don't think it's anything to be scared of, it's all still revenue, and most people know that it's a far too expensive route to take for full time internet access when there's numerous broadband hotspots and the like. Now if all the operators sorted out WiFi hotspots branded by themselves a la T-Mobile... chi-ching!

[Hands0n]

Hmmm, I understand :)

Do any of the mobops publish the profitability of their content provision? They must know this internally, but I've not seen anything anywhere that provides that kind of info. I suppose its classed as trade secret but it would be interesting all the same.

I'm not particularly a content fan, wasn't when I was on Voda when Live came about. Don't use Orange's at all. I only play around with 3's 'cos I paid extra for VV - more through 3G curiosity than anything else. For me, Internet access is where it is at, mostly for communication than anything else. Apart from the comms cost there is not much else in it for the mobops there - so does content really make it for them? It seems that it must do and that perhaps my useage profile (calls, text, data) is not the norm.

[Ben]

"Hang on a minute. What is in it for the Mobop if it goes all ISP stylee?"

Exactly my point. If they end up as ISP's then they're going to kick and scream all the way there. Their pricing already indicates that they don't plan to carry large amounts of third party data over their networks - I'd go as far as calling the pricing prohibitive, and even on Orange if you *are* crazy enough to pay top-whack you're still not supposed to send/receive over a gigabyte in one month.

On the other hand you have their in-house content, a shadow of the content provider that each network hopes to become, priced significantly cheaper. Vodafone is offering Big Brother streaming for £1 a day when the real end-user data cost would be substantially higher. It's the same with Orange - Orange TV costs £10 a month for over £80's worth of data if used for other applications. It's almost as if each network is actually regretting ever venturing into WAP in the first place - a view that I would reinforce by highlighting Three's current strategy.

On some networks/tariffs, especially PAYG, data charges still start at £7.50/mb. Compare this to the effective rate of buying Orange World Access MAX at ~8p/mb. What's shocking is that 8p/mb is still pretty expensive! In many ways, Orange seems undecided about which direction it will commit itself to. It still charges for accessing Orange World, yet has a range of its own content services available and, though relatively low, ultimately high prices on data consumption.

I think the network that will lead in 3G will be the network that leads data - ultimately the future of all communication networks. What shape this will take is what is currently being figured out.

[@NickyColman]

I agree with your statement

"It's almost as if each network is actually regretting ever venturing into WAP in the first place - a view that I would reinforce by highlighting Three's current strategy."

It does seem as tho the networks are suddenly retreating from the idea of "Internet On Your Phone". Perhaps the mobops have realised the amount of effort and cost that would needed to be pumped into becoming an internet/mobile hybrid!

It seems to me at the moment, operators are basically trying to keep us all "at home" or "in-portal" rather than venturing out into the WWW. on our phones!

Whether this will work out long term remains to be seen! Personally i have yet to find a content that interests me! (except maybe Orange Tv) All mobops content seems to be centrered around celebrity and news. I think the content has to be a diverse mix for all to even tempt people to stay "in-portal" rather than going "outside!". I could gladly go without content provided by the ops, however, the idea of open internet access excites me! After all it is another form of communication, the very basis of mobiles themselves!

While content brings in revenue for the ops, i think newer and easier to use forms of communication will drive the future rather than a 30 second clip of which housemate has been evicted! Instant Messaging and the likes are the way forward in my opinion!


Jesus my fingers are killing me! :D

[3g-g]

Personally I've not had any experience on the other ops portals, I've only had WAP and subsequently Orange World on my handsets, but I think we're missing the bigger picture here. WAP, which is what it is, is really limited. Fair enough you can go out onto the WWW if you want, only recently have handsets provided good enough browsers to allow you to view "full and proper" http pages, and at that, you've got to scroll left and right, up and down to view the pages. It's great that you can do this, but hardly practicle.

The networks want data. I've seen projection charts. Views of the future. Although voice is still where it's at, not one network would of predicted SMS would take off the way it did. The only way they'll move towards what the trends predict is by changing the pricing and allowing themselves to be used as a medium to connect users to whatever content they want. If that means they're the backbone for MVNOs, or ISPs or whatever, that's the way it has to go IMO. It's either that or someone needs to bend over and grab their ankles, drop the price of data, take it tight for a while, show users that your mobile connection is just as handy as doing it at home. Make the subs use you for data, the more that do it the more traffic passes and the money comes in. If it goes the way of 3rd party content/connection the mobops will make it profitable, they charge high and the price is watered down at each stage before it hits the user, that's the way the ISPs work just now is it not? The only thing that's maybe stopping this happening straight away is the lack of infrastructure, but they're getting there, believe me.