[getti]

Finally i can talk about it!.

3 have today launched a brand new PAYG scheme called 'Flat 12'.

12p a minute calls to any UK mobile anytime
12p a minute calls to any UK landline anytime
12p texts to any UK network
Free voicemail, in the UK, even if you've run out of credit
Free Skype to Skype calls and messages

The existing voice add-ons are now non existant but new add-ons called 'Stretch' are in effect which are better value

Same idea as Mix 'n' Match really where you buy units. £15 will get you 300 units plius 300 free 3-to-3 calling minutes but there are more options so £25 gets you 700 units etc....

Even £12 gets you 100 units but also 300 mins 3-to-3 calls.

All Flat12 accounts get free voicemail and free Skype calls even with no credit.

[Ben]

Sounds promising! The free voicemail is good, but the free Skyping even when out of credit is intriguing. I think that's something the kids could really get on with - they'd certainly be encouraged to use it when they run out of ordinary credit.

Not sure I understand the topups just yet.

[3GScottishUser]

Oh Well much better than the woeful WePay tariff but hardly a great offering.

Others offer texts much cheaper and free weekend calls and texts and younger fiolks appear quite keen on those.

Will 12p a min calls and texts attract large numbers? Can't see the Skype calls being much use as they depend on someone having a PC connected and logged in. I doubt it but its a step in the right direction.

[Ben]

I guess the thing with Skype would be that the kids would each have handsets on Flat12 and use it for free calls and messages to each other. I agree that there's not much mass appeal, but the youth market could bite. It's an interesting proposition in the face of Blyk.

[getti]

No other network gives you free voicemail and 12p a min is 3p less than other networks for a minute phone call so from a PAYG point its a very good deal.

[3GScottishUser]

Minimum of 1 minute call charge applies and the stretch add-ons/credit conversion limits the validity for the credit to 30 days!! So a nasty sting in the tail!!

As for the 'free skype' : "Available to all Pay As You Go customers from 1st November 2007 for a limited period, subject to activating a top-up. Free calls are for Skype to Skype calls and free chat is for Skype to Skype chat messages & are valid for 30 days from activating any top-up. Handset dependent & subject to fair use policy." - So maybe not forever!!

I think the whole scheme is very complicated in comparison to the competition. It took me a while to figure out the deal re the stretch facility and that may be its downfall.

Tesco mobile still offer 10p/min X/Net calls and 5p texts on their Extra PAYG Tariff.

As ever the headline pricing looks good but they have factored in lots of conditions that make the deal less attractive than one first imagines. Nowadays you have to consider the free extras offered on PAYG as they can make a huge difference to the overall value.

[solo12002]

Given the fact that calls are 12p and you get skype and free voicemail. I think its great. Now what does vodafone charge for their calls and no add ones please just the basic prices!

Sorry was it 30p/40p?

[Ben]

Flat12 may not be the absolutely best value proposition on the market and it remains restrictive in areas, but I think it is, without a doubt, the most screwed-together prepay tariff offered by Three to date and one that may actually appeal to a certain segment of the market.

This is definitely one to watch, not dismiss like the ones that came before.

[3GScottishUser]

All PAYG offerings have changed dramatically over the last few months.

Vodafone offer 'Anytime' which is 30p for 1st 3 mins each day then a flat rate of 10p per minute or text. You can add Stop the Clock (free) making a 3 minute charge cover the cost of a call up to 60 minutes, evenings and weekends. You also get free weekend calls if you spend £5 or free weekend texts if you spend £2.50 in the week.

Now, depending on your usage pattern I reckon you could easily get more value from the Vodafone deal than from Flat 12. You really do have to factor in the extras especially ones like Stop the Clock!

Comparing like for like (without the complication of limited expiry options) lets say you make 15 minutes of calls daytime and 30 mins of calls at night on both PAYG services. 3's Flat 12 = 45 X 12p = £5.40 Vs Vodafone Anytime 3 X 30p, 12 X 10p then depending on the number of calls at night as little as 30p for the 30 mins. Lets say 3 10 minute calls at 30p each. Total Vodafone cost = £3.00 So without factoring in the free weekends a typical user could be much better off on Vodafone.

[Hands0n]

Don't forget T-Mobile has had the flat rate 12p per min PAYG deal for ages now.

But it is good to see 3 beginning to play in the same courtyard as its peers, and about time too. 3 badly needed to get back into PAYG, but the deal is not entirely flattering against the competition.

3GSU's comments about Vodafone's PAYT are entirely valid - and if you make good practical use of Stop The Clock and, if you travel, Passport - even Vodafone Family - you will see superb cost-effectiveness that is very hard to beat.

But it all really does depend on your own individual pattern of use. You simply have to take it all in before deciding which PAYG to go to.

[Ben]

Stop the Clock is certainly a very lovable add-on, and I continue to applaud Vodafone for it. There's great value there, giving customers back their 'off peak', and I'd imagine it has helped reduce churn away from Vodafone prepay.

Still, I like 3's 3-to-3 extra allowance and the free Skype-to-Skype stuff. Depending on your usage patterns (and I appreciate that use of Skype especially will be a minority pattern) there's real value to be had there, too.

At least now I wont be forced to laugh at people when I hear they're on Three PAYG ;)

[3GScottishUser]

What is shocking is that 02 still charge PAYG customers 40p/min for X/Net calls!!

BTW I think T-Mobile put up their PAYG to 15p/min which is the same as Orange now. Both have free weekend offers.

[Hands0n]

Still, I like 3's 3-to-3 extra allowance ......

And therein lies my particular problem - I truly do not actually know anyone (save for one staff member of mine) who is on 3 anymore. They all tried it, at my eager behest I should add, and they have all left it in complete disgust. So that specific benefit is irrelevant to me.

We should run a poll - "How many of your friends, associates and colleagues are on 3?".

[3GScottishUser]

And therein lies my particular problem - I truly do not actually know anyone (save for one staff member of mine) who is on 3 anymore. They all tried it, at my eager behest I should add, and they have all left it in complete disgust. So that specific benefit is irrelevant to me.

We should run a poll - "How many of your friends, associates and colleagues are on 3?".

Fair point indeed.

Get the poll set up then!!

[getti]

Problem will be STC is a promotion and can be changed or removed at any time by the network

[3GScottishUser]

Problem will be STC is a promotion and can be changed or removed at any time by the network

It's NOT a promotion!!

It's a permenant offer and nowhere do Vodafone state it is a limited period offer!

Ridiculous and misleading....unless evidence can be provided to substantiate the statement quoted above.

(If they removed it they could have 1000's leaving their contracts as they would have changed the terms to users detriment. So they won't.)

STC is as reliable an offer as any currently available in the mobile market, all of which are subject to change per the small print in every company's T+C's.

[getti]

i read somewhere a while back it was a promotion but on looking through the T&C i cant see anything now so i guess its a permanent thing

[3GScottishUser]

i read somewhere a while back it was a promotion but on looking through the T&C i cant see anything now so i guess its a permanent thing


Thanks, glad that has now been clarified.

:)

[solo12002]

Wow it a bit harsh are we in a court of law here?

" It's a permenant offer and nowhere do Vodafone state it is a limited period offer!

Ridiculous and misleading....unless evidence can be provided to substantiate the statement quoted above."

Three offer calls at 12p per min at all times one could say if I use my mobile during the day on vodafone on anynet the rate is 30p to threes 12p. as for passport is it not a flat rate fee of 75p, three offers a home like home rate of 20p and lets not forget who has the cheapest roaming rates of any UK network , mm THREE.

I could say they now like virgin offfer free voicemail on all of their plans other than Virgin what do the other networks charge.

[Hands0n]

3 always raises the temperature a bit :D Nice on a cold winter's evening, to be sure.

Solo's comment "....... if I use my mobile during the day on ...." is exactly the point I closed off with above. You must really analyse how you use your mobile normally and then the choice of PAYG becomes that much easier to fit into your budget. If I were predominantly a daytime caller then Vodafone's STC would do nothing much for me. But in my individual case I tend to phone friends and family during evenings and weekends - and so STC and Family are perfect for me. The savings against all other networks would be substantial.

Clearly the Vodafone STC offer is not a limited time offer - it has been around for a couple of years at least. However, Vodafone - like any other network - does reserve the right to change or remove the facility. That would be a substantial change in T&Cs and so would put Contracts into jeapoardy. PAYG does not have the contractual tie and so Customers would leave at will. Vodafone, I contend, would be very foolish to do away with STC as it is an established product now (not available on their 30-day Contracts by the way).

There are not many who offer free voicemail anymore - and I would expect 3 to do away with free in due course, but of course it may not. Nice to have if you use voicemail much - again put it in your thoughts when working out the differentiators.

[3GScottishUser]

Three offer calls at 12p per min at all times one could say if I use my mobile during the day on vodafone on anynet the rate is 30p to threes 12p.

The above is misleading as nobody in their right mind would choose anynet rather than the less expensive anytime offering on Vodafone. Anytime offers the 1st 3 minutes a day at 30p then 10p per minute thereafter and Stop the Clock plus free weekends.

All together the potential call costs are lower on Vodafone PAYG in most instances.

Passport is the cheapest option across the widest range of countries for roaming. Flat rate incoming call charge for up to 1 hour and flat rate charge + home tariff abroad. Applies in all popular holiday destinations in Europe unlike 3 which only has coverage of its own in a few European countries. Depends where you visit but if you go to Greece, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, France etc you are better off with Passport.

[Hands0n]

Have Voda changed something then? They never used to offer STC on Anytime. It was expressly stated that STC was only available on Anynet.

[3GScottishUser]

Have Voda changed something then? They never used to offer STC on Anytime. It was expressly stated that STC was only available on Anynet.


AFAIK you can have STC on any price plan. They make no mention of it being exclusive to either PAYG scheme on their site.

[Hands0n]

AFAIK you can have STC on any price plan. They make no mention of it being exclusive to either PAYG scheme on their site.

No, it is in the T&Cs - STC is only available on Anynet - it is Free Weekends that is available on both PAYT price plans. It used to be on their main pages detailing Anynet and Anytime. Strange that it is not in the headlines anymore but buried in the T&Cs only.

But there you have it - Anynet only for Stop The Clock, which still isn't so bad - it really depends upon what the Customer's call pattern is whether or not STC does them any favours or not. If you are a big daytime user then Anytime is the plan for you - but no STC. OTOH if you mostly call evenings and weekends then Anynet + STC is unbeatable.



Vodafone Stop The Clock is available as an addition to the Anynet price plan. Vodafone Stop The Clock applies to all standard calls (Vodafone mobiles, other UK mobile networks or landlines with a geographic STD code) made within the United Kingdom (excluding Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) that commence during our evening and weekend periods. All other calls are excluded, e.g. calls to non-geographic numbers, such as 0845 numbers, premium rate numbers, voicemail calls and data calls.

A call that commences during our daytime hours will not qualify for Vodafone Stop The Clock even if the call finishes during evening or weekend hours. A call that starts during our evening and weekend periods but then continues into daytime hours will be charged from the point the daytime rate begins at the standard Anynet daytime charge. A call that qualifies for Vodafone Stop The Clock will be charged the standard Anynet evening and weekend charge for the first 3 minutes and then charged nothing for the subsequent 57 minutes. After this 57 minute period if a call is still in progress charging will recommence as per the Anynet price plan

If you make a call that comes out of your voice pack, to which Vodafone Stop The Clock also applies, then the first 3 minutes of that call will be deducted from your pack and then the next 57 minutes of that call are free. After this 57 minute period, if a call is still in progress, the remainder of the call will be deducted from your pack or charged as per the Anynet price plan as appropriate.

If your call is cut off for any reason and you need to redial you will be treated as starting a new call.

Vodafone Stop The Clock may only be used for private non-commercial use and is not for resale, nor for non-voice services. All usage is subject to Vodafone’s fair use policy. If, in the reasonable opinion of Vodafone, your use is excessive, we may ask you to moderate your usage. If you then fail to do so, we reserve the right to charge you for the excessive element of your usage at your price plan's standard rate and/or to transfer you to the Anynet price plan without Vodafone Stop The Clock.

Source: http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp;wrpsessionid=Fh8bzxj5P8TW1R9sfV2GRvyVrtvXL23nr b1n4ZTmHcWfTqpVqvC3!956121002?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=template12&pageID=PTC_0007

[gorilla]

I want to add to this, but I hate pre pay. I think it's poor value for money. I know there are those with credit problems and of course children and others who want to control their spend, but I advise people away from it.

An example? One of my mates was on vodafone and spending £50 a month (at least) on pre pay. He switched to a £30 month contract and now can't use all his minutes / sms.

Just my 2p.

[hecatae]

The above is misleading as nobody in their right mind would choose anynet rather than the less expensive anytime offering on Vodafone. Anytime offers the 1st 3 minutes a day at 30p then 10p per minute thereafter and Stop the Clock plus free weekends.

All together the potential call costs are lower on Vodafone PAYG in most instances.

Passport is the cheapest option across the widest range of countries for roaming. Flat rate incoming call charge for up to 1 hour and flat rate charge + home tariff abroad. Applies in all popular holiday destinations in Europe unlike 3 which only has coverage of its own in a few European countries. Depends where you visit but if you go to Greece, Cyprus, Portugal, Spain, France etc you are better off with Passport.

swings and roundabouts :rolleyes:

My name is Joe Bloggs, why do vodafone have two payg offerings, what is passport, I have a passport why do I need another one, why should I be charged for listening to incumbents leaving me voicemail on your network?

Why should i pay 30p a minute when I only use my mobile for calls for 3 minutes a day.

Free Windows Live messenger, free news, free comedy, Skype that's internet call thing right? Sold, Vodafone where's my PAC.

[3GScottishUser]

Free Windows Live messenger, free news, free comedy, Skype that's internet call thing right? Sold, Vodafone where's my PAC.



It's just not that simple and I bet 3 wish it was. Sadly there are millions who have already been bitten by 3's cheap deals and won't touch them again at any price. As for Skype and WLM - not important for most users. What is important is call relibaility and effective customer support plus the best range of handsets at various price points.

Flat 12 will find some fans but most mobile users will still opt for GSM networks which have a proven track record and offer the widest range of options for basic services.

[hecatae]

the other thing to look at is the average custoemr walking into a 3 store will be offered basic mix n match.

£15 for 300 miutes or texts, plus 300 free 3 to 3 minutes.

the 300 3 to 3 minutes is why wepay is being replaced, as you could leave your phone on a call to a wepay user and they would have a huge wepay credit. 2p per minute of call being received, 300 minutes call would equate to £6 for the cost of nothing.

[Ben]

That's interesting, mob453, very interesting. I didn't really like the idea of Wepay anyway, it was taking the whole 'cashback' dynamic about 10 steps too far. There's no doubt in my mind that Flat12 coupled with 3's latest contract offerings gives them their best all-round offering in the run up to Christmas yet. I genuinely hope it's successful for them, regardless of the pro's and con's of the tariffs discussed here.

[solo12002]

I love the idea of flat 12, what would blow it away in my mind is to let you have the x-series add on at £5 a month rather than the normal internet access.