[Ben]

Jane - thanks!

Got an email from Jane at Orange today saying that Orange customers can download the Orange-customised PvPlayer at http://orange.multimedia/w/5274/?sid=e51b2a84927d Defunct - buggy build, read on in this thread for manual installation instructions for a newer build of PvPlayer.

The download worked, and PvPlayer now opens on my phone. Orange World is playing up for me at this moment in time, but I'll see if I can actually get something to stream a bit later.

Just more proof that anything is possible if you can get through to the right person - and goodness me did I have to work hard to get that link. Hopefully, providing streaming does actually work, there's now nothing to stop you buying the 6680 SIM-Free if you don't want to put up with network branded software.

[Ben]

Update: I have streaming. I have downloading. I don't have SOUND!

Somehow the clips I'm downloading are devoid of sound. Even when transferred onto my PC the mpeg 4's have no soundtrack whatsoever!

How weird is that?!

[Jon3G]

well if it was a wide reported problem then I would say its an Orange issue. However it may be the player not asking for the Sound files.

Beyond me.

[Martin3G]

Are you sure there is no audio contained in the MP4 file ?

The last time I checked an MP4 file downloaded from OrangeWorld it was using AMR for the audio. Have you tried playing the file in quicktime as that should be able to play AMR ? You can also use quicktime to show the audio properties of the file.

The Nokia Multimedia player can also play AMR audio from the PC.
http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,72015,00.html


It would seem very strange if the audio had been ommited from the file altogether :confused:

[Ben]

3g-g downloaded some videos and transferred them to his PC, and to mine. The video he sent played fine! I tried the exact same video afterwards downloaded on my phone, sill no sound. Transferred it to my pc - still no sound! Tried in both Real and WMP.

I also sent one of my downloads to 3g-g just to confirm there was no sound when he played it either.

I just don't get it! It makes no sense to me whatsoever. I can understand the phone having some kind of issue and not playing the sound on the Orange clips, but then for the clip still not to have any sound when played on a computer is just weird, especially when the same clip downloaded via a different handset works fine.

I'm at a complete loss now!

[bsrjl1]

Have you tried opening it in Quicktime & then Show Info - it might be in a format that you don't have the codec for?

[Ben]

I've definitely got the right codecs on the computer - when downloaded using a different handset the clips work fine. It has to be something at Orange's end. Surely.

[3g-g]

Ben's just in denial, I tried to tell him... He would insist on buying an unbranded, untested handset onto the Orange network he's just asking for problems! :p

I know it'll be difficult, but have you tried using your Z1010 to see if it's the same? Those clips were brought down on my Sanyo, which doesn't use PV. I wondered if it may just be the player on the 6680 handset and not the actual content.

I'm pretty sure O's position on it would be if it's working for others on "official" equipment then it must be something to do with the actual HS not the DL source.

[Ben]

Z1010 doesn't use pvplayer either AFAIK - it's obviously not affecting a great deal of people or I'd have heard about it before now.

Those clips I downloaded have no audio track full stop though. A file's a file, I refuse to believe that my phone is magically stripping away the audio. Imma call 350...

Edit: Call back when the handset gets released :D

[Dom3G]

Hi Ben, I have been reading these forums for a while, but have decided to register because im positive Orange CAN help with this problem.

I used to work for them incidentally so I know what a nightmare it can be trying to find someone who knows enough to help!

Anyway, on all sim free Nokias you always need the PVPlayer app to get video to work, I always get sim free phones so I have always had a similar problem to yours.

I bought a sim free 6630 and borrowed an mmc from an old colleague to install the orange branded version of the PV app which I thought would work - it didnt and there was no sound at all. I left it at that because I wasnt that botheredat the time.

All of a sudden the Orange World pages stopped working on my phone (this is going somewhere I promise) and would only show as basic text. This I was bothered about - so rang CS tried 156 data support as they're usually more clued up - but ended up dealing with 350.

They said because I had an unbranded phone (before they released it) when Orange World was updated to support the handset, it didnt recognise my phone's software. So 350 got me to visit a link via the handset while they were on the phone. The link was full of all sorts of codes, which I think were software details. They took all of these codes and said they would add them to their 'system' so their wap pages would recognise my handset version.

It took 24 hours and hey presto Orange World started working again, they even called me back to check it had worked(!) and as an added bonus the sound on PV Player, which I had never even mentioned to them was magically restored! It now works perfectly and has ever since. Im almost 100% sure the problem is NOT your phone, it is something at Orange's end as their wap service will only recognise their branded handsets when accessing some services.

I was front line data trained when I worked there and this type of thing is definately not covered in any training, I would give 350 another try, if you have no luck try getting through to level 2 data support, their extension is 157 but you cant call from your handset, as the dept only takes internal transfers.

I hope all that made sense, sorry its so long winded! Good Luck!

[Jon3G]

Welcome

that was very useful, I really hope you stick around with us

[Dom3G]

I will do! Thanks. Ive always read the 3G forums but the others had deteriotated into a bit of free for all, so I was always reluctant to post! This one seems to be pretty good so far! (sorry thats a bit off topic!)

[Ben]

Welcome to Talk3G :D

That's extremely insightful, thank you. I'll put my patient hat on and call up tomorrow. Initially the 350 team seemed pretty enthusiastic and clued up, but I've observed a marked change in their attitude recently - and in their level of technical knowledge. At one time you'd actually call and they'd have 3G phones there - more recently, one woman I spoke to said she couldn't get up and fetch a handset because she's not allowed to walk around the office...

[Ben]

Ok, after about half an hour on the phone to 350 I'm still unable to get an answer. After being put on hold several times I was told that Orange World works by your IMEI and that having my Z1010 IMEI registered to my account could be why it isn't working - apparently this cannot be changed unless doing an upgrade.

I was also told to go on 3G forums ;)

To be fair to the guy, he did go and ask a lot of different people, but the answer came back as "Sorry, your phone isn't Orange branded, we can't help you". I asked him to escalate the issue and he said there simply isn't anyone to escalate it to. I asked him to queue it to offline support and he said they wouldn't deal with it.

I'll try the data route...

UPDATE: 157 (2nd line) seem to think that what I'm suggesting is absolutely impossible. The man went as far as telling me that they may never release the 6680 handset (yeah right) and that even if they do there's nothing Orange can do to help me. *infuriating*. He just didn't care at all - I swear the woman dialed some kind of secret extension for 'fob off the customer' instead of 2nd line support :)

[3g-g]

...being put on hold several times I was told that Orange World works by your IMEI and that having my Z1010 IMEI registered to my account could be why it isn't working - apparently this cannot be changed unless doing an upgrade....

Now I'm not sure on the technicalities of this, however I believe the handset you have registered updates automatically if it's on the network for long enough. I don't know if it'll be the case for a unbranded handset as I imagine you'll be on the grey list.

In the past I've moved between a couple of different handsets, taken from the office, not using the original handset that was registered with the account. For example, I had a 6210 which was the "registered" handset, I got hold of a 6310i and used that for about 2 months, it broke, I called up CS to report the damage and get a new HS sent out, they went to check what handset was registered with my acc. and when they came back on the phone, "hello there, ok, we'll send you out your replacement 6310i"... Now I never upgraded or informed them that I was using that handset, so somewhere the network had been updated saying what I was using on a permanent basis.

It's just a thought, it may possibly change, however as it's not an IMEI registered with O I imagine you'll remain on the grey list. :(

[Dom3G]

Ben, I dont think Orange World does work from your imei, otherwise how would you be able to use the wap configurators from manufacturers sites?

Also Orange have a similar configurator system which can be used to send out wap/mms settings for unbranded phones - I have used it for exactly that reason for customers before. I know your problem is more complicated but I just dont believe the IMEI story.

I have never used my branded handset with orange. I have had a panasonic x70 i never used, and used a sim free 6600, p910i, k700, 6230 all of which worked perfectly from the wap configurator.

Since I went 3g im registered with an LG8150, but I have a sim free z1010, 6630 and I have also used a sanyo. Ive sim swapped between them loads and wap has always worked other than the small 6630 problem I had.

[3g-g]

Ben, I dont think Orange World does work from your imei, otherwise how would you be able to use the wap configurators from manufacturers sites?

Also Orange have a similar configurator system which can be used to send out wap/mms settings for unbranded phones - I have used it for exactly that reason for customers before...

Surely the HS the WAP configurators etc are only handset specific, it wouldn't have anything to do with an IMEI, that's only used to identify your handset to the network on authentication. The web based configurators work by sending a text message with specific code relevant to the handset, it's like, if you've ever sent a business card from a nokia HS to another manufacurer type, sometimes it won't understand and it'll display gobeldygook on the screen even though it's said SMS received.

Orange World is intelligent enough to recognise what handset you're using, it checks every time you log in or request a page. I can browse on my Sanyo, go to the video section and stream a clip. If I quickly change the USIM over to my 6650 and go back to the same page it doesn't offer me the option to download or stream, it's aware that the HS doesn't support it. I don't know what HS Orange World thinks you're using, but it looks as if it's decided you don't want sound anyway.

My thoughts are that the HS is greylisted, meaning the network isn't sure what to do with you, you're allowed to use services, however it's not quite sure of what you're capable of, hence funny browsing, and subsequently not the service you desire. Quite possibly once O bring the 6680 onto the network officially the problems may be resolved. Either that or your current 6680 goes to Voda and you upgrade your Orange contract to an "official" 6680. :)

[Ben]

I'm so going to have to call back again ¬_¬

"A Representative on 156 for pay monthly or 450 option 2 for payg will be pleased to run a diagnostic in order to resolve this problem."

MY ARSE THEY WILL!

"If as you state, your handset is not being recognised by the Orange network, the issue will need to be referred through to Technical Support for a resolution for you."

I've asked. And asked. AND ASKED :D

"Should there be any problems with resolving this by phone call to them, then there is a third level of expertise which can be referred to."

Asking for that is going to be exciting ;)

Still, armed with quotes from the lovely people at email support, I'll call tomorrow during office hours and see where it gets me. I've rarely had problems navigating the Orange machine in order to get what I want, but this has been a real challenge! Thanks to you all for your advice and discussion thus far.

[bsrjl1]

The Orange World WAP portal gets told what handset (& other info) as part of the WML get message the handset sends, in exactly the same way that a www server knows what version of IE/Netscape you're using: the useragent tag.

They won't update the portal until the handset is (just about) released. It's nothing at all to do with your IMEI, although that can be used to determine handset vendor/type. Every couple of attaches, you will transmit your IMEI to the network. Your handset will not be on the grey list - it's used for traces & suspicious handsets (perhaps ones that are not behaving well in the RF sense). Won't be on the black list either (!). There isn't actually a white list, it's just everything else.

To be honest, you can't really expect Orange to support a handset they don't offer yet - see if things imrove on Friday when it's supposed to be launched.

[Martin3G]

I think Orange World identifies the phone from it's user-agent. If you could change the user agent on the phone to say a 6630 then the downloads will probably work. I've modified a user agent before on a microsoft smartphone by editing the registry but I'm not sure if this can be done on Nokia phones.

I'm sure Orange World for the Nokia 6680 will be sorted out very soon though :)

[Ben]

"To be honest, you can't really expect Orange to support a handset they don't offer yet"

You're absolutely right, and if nothing worked then I'd just have to sit it out - but Orange are delivering video content perfectly to my phone, they're just delivering copies that have no soundtrack. To me that seems quite insane.

"I'm sure Orange World for the Nokia 6680 will be sorted out very soon though"

I certainly hope so - how on earth are they supposed to test the handset thoroughly as they are supposed to have been doing if Orange World does not recognise the user agent for the phone yet and/or delivers video clips with no sound content? That's rhetorical ;)

Cheers again for the insights - I'm sure it's only a matter of time now.

[dgilbert2]

By installing PVPlayer onto an "unbranded" 6680 TODAY, does Orange World now work OK, ie able to view videos with sound etc?

(I'm thinking of having my Orange branded 6680 flashed to get rid of the Orange Homescreen)

A final point, I wonder what made Orange go for the PVplayer? Maybe Realplayer did not give the functionality they needed or they could not agree license terms??

[Schockwave]

Look in the folder Imaging and there you will find Real Player, not sure whether that helps, though. Not sure what the difference is between the two.

[Ben]

Orange (I assume) have some kind of agreement to distribute all their content through PvPlayer. Everything Orange do seems to be 'specialised' - they like to come to their own agreements and have their own bespoke software.

My SIM-Free 6680 still has no sound on almost all video clips - I played one film trailer once that worked. So, I guess it all comes down to how much you value your Orange World clips over the Homescreen.

[Schockwave]

I have not downloaded any movie clips, so cannot comment on whether I get sound or not, tested Orange TV and that worked.

[Ben]

Yeah, Orange TV works fine, which is good enough for me - I only used to use the news clips anyway and there's CNN and ITN on Orange TV! Music Player also works fine, and Fire Player does too afaik. You'll lose some of the Orange applications like their backup thing though :\ No great loss!

[apoc_reg]

Well i have a 6680 on orange and have not changed the software

i did however install a more up to date version of pvplayer (which allowed fullscreen video!) and no sound on orange world!! i loaded pvplayer from backup and the sound worked again!

so that to me suggested that it was the version of pvplayer which was important

I hope someone figures this out as i was going to get mine flashed at the weekend until i found out about this

cheers

[Ben]

Hmm. Do you have a .SIS of the original PvPlayer? I'd be eternally grateful if you can get hold of the 'working' version and attach it to a post on this thread!

Edit: Do you have a card reader? Or anyone else with an Orange branded handset for that matter... is the Orange PvPlayer app installed on the memory card in the System folder (or anywhere else)?

[apoc_reg]

Hi ya

No sorry i dont have the sis or a card reader

I should be getting a reader in the very near future so when i do i'll check back and see if ou still need it

[dgilbert2]

Or anyone else with an Orange branded handset for that matter... is the Orange PvPlayer app installed on the memory card in the System folder (or anywhere else)?

My Orange 6680 (f/w 3.04.35) does NOT have a .sis file of PVPlayer. I've searched all "drives" including the memory card.

The working PVPlayer that came installed is Version 03.04.00.253 build 269, this works fine. Not sure what version you get though when downloading the file from the earlier Orange World link?

EDIT Noticed that all the PV files are stored on the ROM. eg z:\system\apps\PVPlayer (and other z: locations), no installation file though?

apoc_reg, do you know the version numbers that worked / did not work?

[Ben]

Can you zip up all of the files in z:\system\apps\PVPlayer and post them? I'd love to have a play and see if I can get it to work. As I have a version installed I might just be able to replace the program files with the 'working' pvplayer and get something that works as a result.

Don't worry if not, I know it's a pain!

Edit: Btw, build 235 here, so it's an old one they've got available for download.

[dgilbert2]

Can you zip up all of the files in z:\system\apps\PVPlayer and post them? I'd love to have a play and see if I can get it to work. As I have a version installed I might just be able to replace the program files with the 'working' pvplayer and get something that works as a result.

Ben, I have attached a ZIP file of the directories containing PVPlayer files that I can find.

The BAD news is that I could not easily delete the "others", so unfortunately you have everything, sorry!!!

The file is too large for posting so you can get it HERE (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kshilliam/System.zip) (Wish it told me BEFORE trying to load ALL the file!!)

NOTE: It will take until about 10:30pm until its all there!

Hope it helps!

[Ben]

Thanks so much :D I'll have a pick through and see if I can get it to work. Thanks again, dgilbert2!

[Ben]

Blow me down, folks! It only bloody works! I'll get a slimmed down package and some instructions uploaded soon. :D

*does a victory lap*

Heaps of thanks to dgilbert2 for this one - couldn't have done it without you!

Edit:
Instructions
1) Download PvPlayer: http://www.cbfmail.com/web/ben/Orange_PvPlayer.zip
2) Unzip Orange_PvPlayer.zip - You'll have 3 folders, Apps, Data and Libs.
3) I installed it on my memory card. I inserted the memory card into my card reader. Copy the contents of Apps, Data and Libs from the ZIP file into the Apps, Data and Libs folders on the memory card, located in the System folder.
4) Insert the card into your phone and 'Video Clips' will appear on your menu. Currently I have set PvPlayer to use Orange GPRS and set Web to use the same.
5) Voila, clips have sound :) My SIM-Free Nokia 6680 can play Sky News clips with sound for the first time ever.

Note: I haven't tried placing the files on the phone itself. I had removed the previous version of PvPlayer, provided by Jane, from my phone before I began. PvPlayer may well work without some of the files I included - they were my best guess. It may need more files for some of the features to work... should that be the case I'll look into it when the need arises. Try any of this at your own risk.

Further notes: To remove PvPlayer you will have to manually delete the files you manually copied. Oh... and I seem to have broken Orange Worlds media server... hopefully it'll be fixed by morning :D (a few hours later) Ok, it's all working again now. Downloaded a £1.50 music video that, although a ripoff, worked fine, along with some other bits. I'm using Orange GPRS WAP now, though Orange GPRS was working just as well. Fantastic stuff!

[dgilbert2]

I’m pleased that it has been worth while getting the files off the phone. It was not the quickest of jobs!!

I’d be interested now to understand if the other Orange “functions” work OK with standard Nokia firmware. I.e.;

1) Does Orange World still function correctly, ie not just the text version as seen on “Non – Orange” approved handsets?

2) When requesting a video, does PV Player automatically load up and play the clip?

3) Music Player, does this still work?

4) Fire Fox, does this still work?

5) Orange TV, (don’t laugh), does it still “fumble along”?

Whilst not everything above is essential, it would be good to understand if anything else is not going to work if an Orange 6680 is “un branded”.

[Ben]

Here goes :D

1) Orange World functions correctly. I believe, but cannot guarantee, that I get exactly what other 6680 users are getting.
2) PvPlayer automatically loads up and plays the clip. It will often crash, though, if you have set it to use an access point other than the active one. It always helps to make sure Web and PvPlayer share the same access point, ie Orange GPRS or Orange GPRS WAP.
3) Music Player works fine, along with the usual dire sound quality.
4) Fire Player? I've not tried it to be honest, but it certainly should do.
5) Orange TV most definitely succeeds in fumbling along with the generic firmware - it's all good!

My clips aren't launching automatically from the Sky Mobile application though. Do yours play in PvPlayer? Mine tries to open PvPlayer and then everything closes :(

[dgilbert2]

Here goes :D

My clips aren't launching automatically from the Sky Mobile application though. Do yours play in PvPlayer? Mine tries to open PvPlayer and then everything closes :(

It now looks good then for those wanting standard Nokia firmware!!

As for Sky Mobile I have the same problem. Sky mobile closes after the file has dowloaded and PV Player does NOT play the file. You have to find it yourself (in my case E:\system\apps\skymobile\downloads ) and open it. PV Player then plays it no problem, but you have to delete the file manually.

[dgilbert2]

My clips aren't launching automatically from the Sky Mobile application though.

One final question, did Sky mobile work OK before sorting PV Player out, presumably automatically loading up Real Player?

[Ben]

In all honesty I didn't use Sky Mobile until just. I might take the PvPlayer files off later and see if it works then.

I've emailed PacketVideo, who responded with "We'd like to investigate" along with a couple of questions... so hopefully they'll get back to me/us again in a few days.

Edit: Just removed PvPlayer and the Sky application works fine without it :) Bloody PvPlayer! Now I just have to decide whether to put PvPlayer back on and use Orange World or leave it off and use Sky Mobile... :S

[Yeti]

Hi All,

I am new on the forum, but I will try to help a little. I think the crash you are oberving might come from the way the sky mobile application calls up for a default "video player". In symbian, there is embedded mode and non embedded mode. This could be the root of the problem. I faced the same problem is different applications.

Since Orange is not providing the sky app, they will not give support at all. I will dig deeper on my side and will let you know if I find something.

Cheers

Y.

[Ben]

Thanks Yeti, welcome to Talk3G!

PacketVideo have also taken up the investigation and have assigned someone to help find a resolution. Hopefully they'll be able to tell us the technical reasons for the failure if nothing else, but I've got my fingers crossed for a more comprehensive solution.

[Yeti]

Thanks !
Keep us posted on the latest from Packet Video.

On my side, do we know who developped the sky application ? It is sky themselves ?

Cheers,

Y.

[Ben]

"Version 1.0 Developed by weComm for BskyB Ltd."

On a totally unrelated note: "revealing that the Sky's recently launched Sky Mobile service will shortly offer "a handful of live television channels" and the ability to schedule a Sky+ recording remotely"