[Ben]

There's a thread on Macrumors about whether it's appropriate to buy an iPhone for a 14 year old. Some respondents claim they provide mobile phones for children as young as 10.

I personally believe a mobile phone is an adult tool. It provides unfettered, two-way access to the global telecommunications system and allows communication to or from anyone, anywhere in the world. Often parents are incredibly disturbed when their child's phone receives an offensive text message, sometimes completely by accident, demanding censorship and failing to recognise the irresponsibility on their own part.

However, I also believe that the only way we become educated about the world around us is to be exposed to it. Children need to be exposed to the world if they're not to remain naive their entire lives.

The problem comes two-fold then. One is a question of age, and the other a question of what we can do to gradually expose children to mobile phones and, with recent phones, the Internet in a responsible way.

Please vote on the poll and then feel free to make suggestions about ways to introduce children to the big bad telephone and Internet world.

[3g-g]

I've chosen 12, the only reason being it's about the time/age most kids start high school, and after that, spending time with your peers you begin to find out about the big bad world, I think prior to that, depending on your upbringing you're pretty sheltered. But I don't think there's a right or wrong answer or choice, I'm sure some kids are streetwise enough to own a mobile... it all comes down to the parents!

If you've a good relationship with your kids, talk openly with them, trust them and expect them to trust you then I think giving them responsibility only helps them develop into well rounded adults, if they mess up the authority starts and benefits are removed... well, that's my plan, there's no kids yet!

It's always handy to be able to get hold of your kids if needed, but on the other hand I suppose it's something to be stolen too...

Ben, this is too hard, my brain hurts thinking! :p

[gorilla]

I've said 14, but for no real reason. I just think that is an age were you might need a phone (if any child does!).
Is there a legal age as to when a child can be out and about on their own?

I don't really see the problem. If they want it, let them buy it themselves. I can't imagine why they would want one. There are plenty of adults who could live without one.

A more relevant (?) point is maybe to compare the age you provide a mobile for the child with the age they get unrestricted access to the PC i.e. when they can start looking up "stuff" on the net or using IM services.

I suppose in a couple of years people will use their mobile in more and more ways i.e. the majority will check their email, IM, surf, watch tele etc on their mobile, so I suppose an age limit on mobiles might be more appropriate then.

[miffed]

I voted 14 , but TBH I thnk it is more to do with a particular childs lifestyle rather than their physical age
As Kids start to become more independent, and start to spend time traveling alone between 'known' places ,then it seems silly not to take advantage of the communications system we now have to help ensure their safety - and once they are old enough to start dissappearing all over the place ,then is seems sill not to use mobie technology to keep in touch & keep a track on them
I would like to see special phones /tarriffs for these kids - an affordable PAYG phone with good battery life , that can be configured (and password protected) by parents , so they can program several important numbers into it , and bar all other calls /messages etc - that way the phones become more walkie talkies than phones -also, they could be pre programmed to traceable ,so in the event of a missing child - you can find his rough whereabouts that way
I think a few modifications and we could turn mobiles into a helpful parenting tool - rather than a problem

[Ben]

I voted 16.

Now, I don't have children, and I appreciate that telling a 15 year old that, in the face of overwhelming peer pressure, that they are not allowed a mobile phone probably wouldn't lead them to vote me 'Best Dad in the World', but I think 16 would be a reasonable age for an 'unrestricted' handset.

Below that age, I'd want something along the lines of what miffed suggests. I'd want to be able to control the device in a number of ways and gradually open up different services as required. For example, I might start by having a whitelist of numbers that can be called or texted. Then, after about a year, I might want to just block all international calls and messages, all premium rate calls and messages and all picture messages. Eventually I may choose to allow things like picture messages and premium rate services, as I see fit, before eventually 'switching off' control at 16. I think that such a system would allow parents to 'gradually' introduce features of mobile phones to their children in a responsible way.

Networks could even 'make it easy' by having 'default' access restrictions that change automatically as the child gets older, so mum and dad only need to get involved if they want to make custom changes.

The lure for this would likely need to be a) handsets locked to SIMs and b) parents being able to add such a service for their child onto their own accounts so there's a monetary incentive for the child. Accounts could even maintain a separate topup balance for the child to manage that they can spend on premium rate or other parent-designated services.

Children can certainly seem very mature and responsible at early ages. But they're still children, and they're still far more likely to make mistakes of judgement than adults. I don't want the Internet or mobile services in general to become 'child friendly', to the detriment of society. We shouldn't have to live in a 'Universal - Suitable for All' world. But we also shouldn't be confusing a multimedia mobile phone with an iPod and handing them out to children who are too young to bear the responsibility and the risk.

[miffed]

Maybe we should apply for a patent on these kids phones before someone else does ? :D

[Hands0n]

I voted 9 and under simply because with all three of mine 9 is about when they expressed an interest in having a mobile, Genie was available, and being a bit of a techno-geezer it seemed hypocrytical for me to have one but deny them their request.

Now lets get down to the gritty bit. Too many parents in this day and age abdicate their responsibilities and expect everyone and everything else to look after or police their kids. What we end up with is what we generally seem to have. People with loaded guns (sometimes literally) in their hands and without the beginnings of a notion of how to use them. For the record, I do believe that every person above the age of 10 should be taught how to use a firearm, but that is another story altogether. If you really want to know, then ask me why.

Back to mobiles and technology. I have a deep understanding of all the sentiments put forward above. I respect them utterly. For my part, I have introduced all of my kids (4 and no more) to technology carefully, considerately, and with an iron fist if they abused the privilege. They have all had the Internet in total taken away from them for a month before now because of failing to comply with the rules of engagement that I gave them. I take the trouble to check their PCs and the router logs, and they know it. No "Net Nanny" for them - they do their own nannying.

Mobile phones are the same. PAYG is a great introduction. I pay the £10 and if they use it up then tough luck until the next month's payday. An old associate of mine gave his surly 16 year old daughter a contract handset and she ran up a £1,200 bill in a month. Despite being told not to she spent all of her unemployed day calling around her mates. Then he had the temerity to blame the mobile phone company for letting her run up such a bill! I had to bite my lip. Clearly, she could not be trusted with a penny whistle.

Sure, my kids got it wrong many times, but the loss of comms to them was more painful than learning to self-discipline themselves to keep within the limits. Now, all of them are on contract and behaving like responsible individuals, operating within their available parameters. I have sat them in front of the bill each and every time when they have gone over and explained where they went wrong. Even if it was for a single penny over. Those of my family that are now earning any kind of wage pay for their overruns - I pay only the base contract fee. My 17-year-old daughter has just paid me back £116 for using her mobile in Turkey despite me telling her not to. Lesson learned, she won't be doing that again. She sat me down and got me to explain Vodafone Passport in detail until she got it in her head.

And so, although there were some painful steps along the way, the kids were given sufficient coaching to learn how to use these technological items responsibly. But they didn't do it by osmosis. It takes a dedicated approach - dedicated to the welfare of the kids. They will learn, there is no doubt whatsoever about that. But the parent has the responsibility to ensure that learning is achieved, no matter what it takes in terms of time and money.

I contend, therefore, that there really is no minimum age. Rather that there is an age when these things can become appropriate. And that such age will vary dependent entirely upon the family support and the individual child itself.

If we are worrying ourselves about the current-day mobile handset, what on earth are we going to be thinking about the next generation of handsets, networks and facilities? I could no more imagine the situation 15 years hence than I could have imagined today 15 years ago! All I do know is that we, as parents, will have an increasing challenge on our hands and if we don't rise to it, for our kids sake, all will be lost.

[miffed]

Just stumbled across these on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Easy5-ITT-Mobile-phone-for-Elderly-people_W0QQitemZ140181063226QQihZ004QQcategoryZ331 2QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


They are aimed at the elderly , but I think giving something like this to younger kids may be a good Idea
( Although most kids would be to embarrased to use them ! )

[Ben]

Pretty cool. Ok, not 'cool' at all, but you know what I mean.

Manufacturers could easily create devices that are cool for younger children yet are still restricted. I'd imagine they're scared to do so as deliberately targeting mobile phones at children still has negativity attached to it. I'm thinking a focus on games and other 'play features' and a detraction from 'phone' functionality. Just enough to be useful for youngsters.

[MORPH]

This phone is aimed specifically at children (http://www.teddyfone.com/index.shtml). My 8 year old has just started playing out by herself, and we like to be able to know where she is, more for our own piece of mind so she has a mobile (not the teddy phone though). The teddy phone has a very handy tracking feature on it too, which make you wonder how many child abductions could have been prevented if the child had one?

[Hands0n]

The now-13 year old has started asking for a 3G handset to replace his "old" :eek: Samsung D900! My how quickly they grow :D His face would be a priceless picture if I handed him one of those phones.

[solo12002]

" The now-13 year old has started asking for a 3G handset to replace his "old" Samsung D900"

I cant see the problem in asking for one, you an save yourself a load of money, just give him the Cough apple mobile you have:rolleyes:

[Hands0n]

Ooooh, thats fightin talk pardner ;)

I've got an "old" Samsung Z540 that has hardly seen the light of day. That should keep him going for a while.

[solo12002]

A What? " Samsung Z540 "

nah thats not on , i think you need to take him to that bluewater place you go to all the time. I think he find something so much more suitable there!

Its xmas ffs sure a few £000 no hurt you ? lol

[Hands0n]

No way, I'm going to capitalise on the moment. He's like a dog with two danglies at the moment - why spoil it :D

Anyway, I no have a few £000, spent them all on myself :)

[Yssybyl]

I completely agree with Ben with 16 for an unrestricted phone, and definitely nothing on contract until they are "responsible" (which may be 30 ;) ). IMO kids shouldn't be out without an adult until they are 14ish (barring the walk to/from school/friend's houses etc) and thus wouldn't need one anyway... But then there are plenty of phone boxes or heaven forbid a landline... I may sound like an old fuddy-duddy (I'm really not) I just hate the idea of fostering this you-must-converse-via-text-only mentality that kids-with-phones creates.

[Ben]

It's a tough one, isn't it. I'm in awe of Hands0n's liberalism ;)

It may well take a new network to come along before better restrictions can be put into place on child use. I fear that our current networks have billing systems that are far too big and ugly to allow any of them to justify innovation in this area. Not to mention that there's massive scope for inefficiently handling the restriction of mobile accounts and thus every possibility of a very resource-heavy and unreliable outcome.

[Hands0n]

Liberal? Me?? Blimey! I've never, ever, been called that in my entire life. Atilla the Hun yes, but never liberal LOL :D

It is just my philosophy with kids - I aim to teach them to stand up on their own feet, be responsible and face the consequences. Its the same with the Internet to which they have unfettered access. I teach them and expect them (not trust them) to follow the simple rules. Any breaking of them is an instant no-discussion removal of the privilege. Same goes for mobile phones. I've only had to invoke the "hand of doom" on three occasions in the past 5 or 6 years. They've each, in turn, dropped their own particular ball and paid the price. But, equally, they are able to earn the right to return and keep.

Basically teaching them self-discipline - and it is very interesting to see that same attitude carry across into other things that they do. They're kids, they mess up, but they also know there's a price/consequence for doing so.

Its my own little way of using technology to teach them life's lessons early on in the hope they'll be okay to go out into the world on their own one day.

Tough love? Yes. Liberal? Eeeek! I certainly hope not :D

[gorilla]

are you one of them southern softies I hear so much about?:D

[Hands0n]

Ma! Get me whittlin knife and banjo, there's a summin I gonna do :D

[miffed]

It is just my philosophy with kids - I aim to teach them to stand up on their own feet, be responsible and face the consequences. Its the same with the Internet to which they have unfettered access. I teach them and expect them (not trust them) to follow the simple rules. Any breaking of them is an instant no-discussion removal of the privilege. Same goes for mobile phones. I've only had to invoke the "hand of doom" on three occasions in the past 5 or 6 years. They've each, in turn, dropped their own particular ball and paid the price. But, equally, they are able to earn the right to return and keep.




A man after my own heart !
I agree totally with your stance and work along the same lines myself - I am often criticised for letting them do this, or letting them do that - but I firmly believe they need to be given a open field and discover the boudaries for themselves (they KNOW what the rules are) , rather than placing them in an enviroment where they are steered away anything that requires them to use their own judgement of what they should or should not be doing
I think the "mollycoddle" approach that is generally used these days simply promotes a huge lack of responsibility & autonomy in kids