[Ben]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

You can watch Zeitgeist online, for free. You'll need about two hours.

Stick with it, some parts are incredibly interesting, while others are very far-fetched. I'd be interested to hear what you think, on this thread, after you have watched it.

(Content of this movie may offend - please view it with an open mind.)

[3g-g]

I've some free time this weekend coming, so I'll give it a bash, I quite like these type of things. Did you ever watch "Loose Change"? I found that pretty thought provoking, as well as lots of Michael Moore stuff... Fast Food nation is a great read too if anyone's looking for something interesting, It'll make you think twice before your next McDonalds or Burger King i tell ya!

I'll post back come the weekend :)

[miffed]

Did you ever watch "Loose Change"? I found that pretty thought provoking,


Loose change , lol, thats the one that used the "fact" that a B52 bomber had crashed into the empire state building in 1947 without causing fatal damage to "prove" that the 9/11 planes couldn't have brought the WTC IIRC ,
All very well , it wasn't a B52 , it was a B25 !! (MUCH smaller !!) B52's didn't fly until 1952 (funnily enough )

This is typical of your average conspiricy theories , miss out a few bits of key evidence , over focus on some others and ignore the parts that don't fit

Not saying we are always told the truth , in fact I suspect we are not told anything like the truth 90% of the time - but when these nutters seem to know EXACTLY what happened , then alarm bells tend to ring

On the subject of "Loose Change" - I liked this one :D

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

[Hands0n]

I watched as much of the early part of zeitgeist as I could bear, it did grate upon me a lot. I went in with an open mind, especially so with Ben's early warning to be prepared. :) What really started to get my goat is the well worn secularist argument that religion is the root cause for all of the evil in the world. But that simply does not wash.

Regardless of one's religious disposition the secularist, humanist call it what you will, argument of the day seeks to ignore the innate ability of the human being to have a complete lack of humanity. No other creature on this planet causes so much injury and loss of life to its own kind as the human animal. We have near perfected the art of mutual destruction on individual and planetary scale. But rather than acknowledge that we do this ourselves even the non-believer looks for blame where none exists.

We witness, even in this day and age, the aggression of man against man for any number of reasons. Tribal, national, race, colour, belief, in fact any difference that is not tolerated can trigger as little as mild xenophobia to full-scale genocide. Very often religion does not even enter into it. What, for example, has Mugabe's opression of his own people got to do with religion? It is pure tribal. Hitler had no religion, he merely hated and despised the Jews. Idi Amin's regime killed for no other reason the tribal. The roll call goes on, and yet religion does not figure in any of it.

Turning to those campaigns that can be sourced at religious cause - these are in all cases from a completely human interpretation of the philosophies put forward. Passages from the Bible are often quoted to show support and zeal for murderous deeds. But when read with no partisan agenda it is plain to see that what is being reported is the interpretation of humans of the day, much as can be seen even in 2007 where religious zeal or fanaticism is used to justify all manner of pure evil (for the want of any other word). These are at odds with the underlying philosophy being put forward. That being to try and engender man to live in harmony with his own kind and the planet at large. Those civilisations that did live in harmony with the planet and others were ritualistically wiped out or marginalised by our own "enlightened" civilisation (sic).

To close off my diatribe I'll finish with one of my own beliefs - that if all of the world were to take on board the Biblical Ten Commandments we could rip up every other law in the land and global harmony would prevail. Would we, truly, be a less happy and satisfied people than we are now? Is there anything that secularism or humanism has to offer that even comes close? Look to the other world religions and ask the same question. The answer is always the same.

The remaining two main parts of Zeitgeist were tense and intriguing at the same time. The World Order conspiracy theory is not entirely new. That money rules the world can be seen everywhere, and it is not particularly nice people in charge. I truly believe it inevitable that we will end up with a World Order, it is only a matter of time. The signs are clearer now than ever before. The separation between the so-called "Ruling Elite" and the masses is evident in every nation. I am not a conspiracy theorist myself - but the increasing confidence and eagerness of the ruling classes [of all political persuation] to control and dominate the population has a rather uncomfortable haste to it these days.

[Ben]

I found the basis of Christianity, and most religions, particularly interesting (taking it for this moment as fact). It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Christianity really were a faux history based on Egyption ideas and Pagan astrology.

I think that if we were to all take on board the ten commandments then the lights would go out every Sunday.

[Hands0n]

I think that if we were to all take on board the ten commandments then the lights would go out every Sunday.

Im not entirely convinced that would be such a bad thing :) I am old enough to remember when, on a Sunday, everything was closed. People actually seemed to have time for each other then. Now, mine included, families are divided on that one day of the week working unsocial hours to satisfy the desires (not needs) of the Sunday shoppers. And I really have to ask myself the question, are we any better off for it?

Interesting (and inexplicable) is the mirror between the world's religions - all with a common theme of respect and harmony. Even more significant, though, are the ways that the zealots and fanaticists in any religion are able to so easily distort it for their own mostly nefarious purposes.

I picked on the Ten Commandments as an example of the foundantion principles of the Christian religion, as that is supposedly what this nation is based upon (it was). Thinking how they engender the basis for respect to others and ones self - all too lacking in this enlighened age of ours. Don't covet, steal, commit adultry, do to others as you'd have done to yourself etc. A solid foundation for any well functioning society. Contrast with our present-day values that have a global creep.

That the money men control our planet is undoubtedly true. All corruption is rooted in money and has no bounds. Not that I would personally say no to next Saturday's six numbers for the jackpot. But you've only to see how our own politicians behave once in power and in the company of the incredibly wealthy. Witness for the prosecution Anthony Blair's 10-year suck-up to the wealthy elite and how national policy was shaped around it. I wonder if it is not too much of a stretch to suggest that his influence over the legalisation of Cannabis was not in some way steered by the drug barons. It is as good a conspiracy as any other :D

Some of you will, I sincerely hope, live long enough to see how history judges these last 30 years of decline in our societies. Standing here on 7 October 2007 and looking back the 35 years I have been legally an adult it is frightening to see for myself what a decline has occurred. Consider how [then] we had vastly fewer laws but a very much stronger moral code. It is a wonder what is driving us in this particular direction of ever-increasing oppressive overlords, impossible to not fall foul of legislation, mass criminalisation of the population, databases of biometrics containing even the innocent (how long before DNA recording at birth?). Orwell could not have predicted any of this.

Edit: It is said that friends should never discuss religion or politics :) In the Zeitgeist subject we have both in bucket-loads. A veritable intellectual nuclear bomb if you ask me :D