[miffed]

Changed my desktop today and noticed a mark on my 11 month old iMac's screen :eek:


"Hope that comes off" - I thought , but on closer inspection it is BEHIND the LCD (dust ? )

Rang Apple (seviceweb) , and they say it is not covered by warranty as it doesn't affect the functionallity :confused:

I am gutted - the wife thinks I am over reacting

But warranty aside - is this sort out-able ?

It is just below the centre of the picture - along the left edge ... and don't you dare say it is barely noticable - had enough of that from the wife :(

[Ben]

Erm... you need a 2x4" to the head, miffed. ;)

Stuff can get behind screens, these things aren't watertight. I've heard of various screens that have managed to trap insects inside of them, so think yourself lucky ;)

Surely the mark is less annoying than a dead pixel would be - and dead pixels aren't covered either unless they're impairing your use of the machine and there's several of them near the centre.

Have a kitkat :D

[miffed]

It's OK for you ! :(

I can see no way out of this other than buying a new 24" iMac

Still , needs must and all that ;)

[Hands0n]

New iMac? Look, the thing was put together so it must come apart. The LCD, as I recall, is behind a fairly thick perspex front screen - the bit where the dust has accumulated by the looks of it. Surely then it is simply a matter of dismantling the case, getting at the back of the front screen and giving it a wipe with some Mr Sheen (best stuff ever!).

I've never had anything like this with a LCD/TFT before, but the iMac construction is very odd - like a supersized iPod if you ask me. And that perspex front is just begging for such deposits to accrue - that is what perspex does!

[miffed]

No , the blob of dust / whatever ... is between the LCD itself and the backlight , if you change the angle you look at it , you can actually see that the whatever is on the display (text / graphics ) is in front of the mark - but it bleeds through on virtually every colour except black
Trouble is . now I know it's there, I spend more time looking at the mark than any other part of the screen

[Hands0n]

That sounds like a touch of fungus/mould growing in there - you aint got that lovely iMac sitting by the kettle have you? If it is a growth it could get a lot worse.

I think its not too much of a job to dismantle the backlight from the LCD/TFT - just a bit scary if you've never done it before. I can't believe that Apple are saying its nothing to do with them. Surely the functionality (i.e. it is a screen and the functionality is being able to see what is being displayed) is indeed compromised, even if it is only distraction as opposed to completely obscuration.


Feck these people and their warranties. I've got a beef on with Overclockers.co.uk (won't use them ever again) where one of a matched pair of PC-3200 DDR is bust. They want them both back for a two-week turnaround which means they seriously expect me to be without a PC for that period of time. I already told them I use it for business, as if they care a jot. I even offered them my Credit/Debit card info for an advance replacement - but "policy" got in the way. So, before I do send the pair off I've had to buy another matched pair - but not from Overclockers, oh no sir'ee. This time Dabs got my business and Overclockers got a snottygram from me. I also plan to write to their MD and ask him if he'd like his business sytems out of action for two weeks while waiting for a replacement part. Twats!

[solo12002]

LOOK

Accept it guys. Hes only after a new 24 Inch Mac and no matter what we say the guys not for turning!

But boy would I love to be a fly on the wall when he tells the wife/BF/Partner

lol

[Ben]

The iMac's don't actually have a perspex cover over the screen, just the screen itself.

Seriously though, miffed, if it's going to drive you insane then call Apple and tell them how it's preventing you from doing your very sensitive imaging work...

[3g-g]

Seriously though, miffed, if it's going to drive you insane then call Apple and tell them how it's preventing you from doing your very sensitive imaging work...

Looking at Pr0n? ;)

[Hands0n]

The iMac's don't actually have a perspex cover over the screen, just the screen itself.


No, what I mean is that the iMac case itself looks like an oversized iPod :) and that the front of the case is just a sheet of clear perspex. The actual screen itself is housed inside this, and if Miffed is not going to get support from Apple in this case I reckon it would not be too difficult to remove the innards from the casing. But if the contamination is betwixt LCD and Backlight its an altogether harder job to sort out!

[Ben]

It's encased in a clear layer of plastic like the iPod, yes, but that doesn't extend over the screen - it just... stops - unlike the iPods which have the perspex extending over the screen also. Dirt would either have to be on the surface of the screen or within the screen unit - there's no extra layer of perspex between the screen and casing that dirt could be trapped in.

I think I'm understanding what you're trying to say... believe me, I wish the screens were encased in plastic like on the iPods - it'd be a lot easier to get the fingerprints of my staff off the damn things (why, oh why must they poke?)

[Hands0n]

Look here Ben, don't make me go down to the Apple Store at Bluewater. I'm struggling very hard to stay away from one of these (http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=4F8E07C4&nclm=MacPro) :eek: , and I can tell you that I'm not in a very good way today! I feel like celebrating, and this is one idea that will get me a case of concussion if I do this and the Mrs sees me walking into the house with it tucked under my arm!

I am resisting, but the feeling is that I'm slipping down into the abbys :D

[Ben]

I think you should absolutely get yourself down to Bluewater, buy yourself a delicious 24" iMac and take it home with you in celebration - noting as you do so that the LCD is exposed as on most monitors ;) Trust me, I have 8 of the 20" buggers!

[Hands0n]

You are a baaaaaaaaaaaaad man :D

[Ben]

You are a baaaaaaaaaaaaad man :D
If you're being pushed any closer to the thought of owning an all-in-one then yes, I am! Could the king of AMD and BYO really be tempted by the iMac sleekness? :p

[miffed]

Trust me, I have 8 of the 20" buggers![/SIZE][/I]


I really must pop round for tea one day ( and switch my iMac for one of yours while you are preparing the biccies :D )

;)

[Ben]

I really must pop round for tea one day ( and switch my iMac for one of yours while you are preparing the biccies :D )

;)
Excellent, bring some cloths and you can help me get all the fingerprints off while we enjoy a PG Tips. ;)

[Hands0n]

If you're being pushed any closer to the thought of owning an all-in-one then yes, I am! Could the king of AMD and BYO really be tempted by the iMac sleekness? :p

As said "king" installs a brand new pair of DDR from Crucial while he sends off the ailing pair to Overclockers for replacement ................ yes ....... I am getting closer to this state of mind where I chuck the towel in with M$ and AMD/Intel and admit that they're right and I'm wrong. Windows on x86 is poo in the extreme!

[Ben]

Apple really do need a 'headless iMac' mid-range expandable tower/cube type thing. Of course they'll probably never do it, because the generic PC market has a dire markup on that form factor and the equivalent Mac would cost a relative fortune, but even so - it'd be perfect for those who's back has been broken by the final Windows straw but need something a bit more than a Mac mini for their main system.

[Hands0n]

I was taking a semi-serious look at the G4 towers on eBay last night - you can get them very cheap, but they are the older Power PC chip and that won't be supported beyond OSX Tiger. For less than £200 you can grab a resonably spec'd G4, but then why sod around when £1,600 gets you the full monty G5 direct from the Bluewater store! I really cannot find myself affording that psychologically or any other way .......... but whats that got to do with anything :D This is one of those very serious boys and their toys moments.

I popped the Crucial DDR into the Windoze/AMD 64 and all is well with the world again - its running faster than before, so I guess the ailing DDR was faulty from day one! This machine was never the most stable of things that I've ever built before!

I love the Mac Mini to bits, its great fun and does what I want it to. It has stonking performance also, courtesy of the Core Duo and 2GM of memory. Plus it has shed-loads of style, making everything else on my desk look positively shabby!

But, here we go again, I really do love the tower format, the expandability and flexibility. The G5 does it for me, as it has that and a certain brutal style to it also ..... but I don't need one :eek:

Heh heh, this is an itch that just won't go away :)

[Ben]

By G5 are we talking PowerMac G5 towers? I take it Apple are still selling some as refurbs?

Loyal pre-Intel Mac-lovers everywhere will have my head for this, but I'd avoid the IBM chips. They were fantastic in their day, but Intel's Core microarchitecture wipes the floor with them for personal computing performance. The world has moved on.

Now if Apple had stuck with IBM and gone down the Cell processor route... that could have been interesting! But then we wouldn't have the lovely virtualisation and Bootcamp-ability that the Intel switch has delivered.

Older Mac's, though... there's certainly a lure there. Just not sure they're worth the investment now, given how they hold their value quite well.

[miffed]

Funnily enough , I have been keeping an eye on ebay for old apple stuff these day - I would like to have a few bits (purely for cosmetic / ornamental reasons )
These are
A G3 "touchscreen" iMac
A G4 iMac
A G3 ibook (the colourful clamshell ones)
A G3 Powermac
A G4 Powermac
An original Macintosh
A Newton Messagepad of some description

I have seen most of these at near giveaway prices from time to time - but never had my "buying" head on at the time

Trouble is , I don't really have the room for the functional stuff I already have - let alone all these ornaments !!

[solo12002]

" Heh heh, this is an itch that just won't go away "

Have you tried your local GMU clinic they normally can get rid of crabs!

[Hands0n]

By G5 are we talking PowerMac G5 towers? I take it Apple are still selling some as refurbs?

Loyal pre-Intel Mac-lovers everywhere will have my head for this, but I'd avoid the IBM chips. They were fantastic in their day, but Intel's Core microarchitecture wipes the floor with them for personal computing performance. The world has moved on.

Now if Apple had stuck with IBM and gone down the Cell processor route... that could have been interesting! But then we wouldn't have the lovely virtualisation and Bootcamp-ability that the Intel switch has delivered.

Older Mac's, though... there's certainly a lure there. Just not sure they're worth the investment now, given how they hold their value quite well.

Ooooh no, I'm talking strictly Mac Pro ( http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=4F8E07C4&nclm=MacPro )

To hell with loyalty to a particular lump of silicon - if the next works better then I'll have some of that. The thought of a quad-core Xeon kitted out host just sends me all weak at the knees! Its one of those "gotta have one" moments .... not that I'd have the faintest what to actualy do with it!!! But whats that got to do with anything :D

[Ben]

You'd be absolutely shellshocked if you take home a Mac Pro, I guarantee. There'll likely be an 8-core variant very soon, but honestly four cores on two chips is just so insane that the 8-core version will likely be a slow seller.

Try and stretch to the 2.66GHz chips if you can. 3GHz isn't necessary, but the jump from 2.0GHz to 2.66GHz per core will be distinct in applications that can only handle a single core.

RAM for these machines is special FB-DIMMs (fully buffered), complete with their own heatsinks, which is still very expensive. However, there's 8 slots on two slide-out boards (so neat, so very neat) so adding it as-and-when isn't a problem. Remember that OS X is a RAM hog, and that there's a marked slowdown once it starts swapping in from the HDD, so anything less than 2GB of RAM wont give you optimal performance on a machine this powerful. So long as you've got the processors then anything else can wait...

...except WiFi and Bluetooth. Spec these, you'll regret it if you don't.

Fastest, most powerful, most reliable machine I've ever owned, bar none.

[Hands0n]

Gawd, you really aren't helping are you :) I'm so near Bluewater that I can almost reach out and touch the cold aluminium case of my new baby!!! What am I saying????!!!! :eek:

I'd want WiFi and BT, even if I had to fit it myself. Also the 3-year extended warranty, I never buy these but on such an expense I would not feel at all comfortable without one.

The notion of running Parallels with XP in one of the "slots" is appealing, as I could then get out from under this dedicated machine, although I would still be open to all of the issues with Windows that I face daily (the firewall, anti-virus and spam logs are frightening). I want to move all of this functionality over to the Mac and just use the Windows/AMD machine for the essential stuff that I can't do anywhere else.

I was planning for the 2.66GHz machine - the 3GHz is completely over the top expensive, but not sure I can stretch beyond the basic 1GB of memory to start with. I realise this will have performance implications intially, but the memory on the Mac Mini had to be a retro-fit. So long as I'm not trying to do too much at the same time it shouldn't be too much of an issue! That, or I'll have to live with the disk-lag until I can attend to an upgrade - I quite fancy 4GB as a final destination :)

S**t!!! I could be driving home with one of these in the next few hours!!!

[Hands0n]

Excellent will power :D I made it home without vectoring by Bluewater Apple Store.



But there's still tomorrow :eek:

[Ben]

Congrats! ;)

Get that Airport & BT built-in if you can, it's one of the more fiddly things to add afterwards.

[Hands0n]

The plan is to walk away with one from the Apple Store in Bluewater - I suppose they'll just bundle the bits and I'll have to fit them myself, unless there is a pre-built in the stockroom.

[Ben]

Hmm, yes, they tend to stock the most common configurations - I guess we'll have to wait and see!

[Hands0n]

Oh well, here I am, considerably poorer :eek: But a ton happier than I was this morning :D

Sitting in the dining room, all temporary-like, is a nice shiny new Apple Mac Pro 2.66GHZ twin dual-core Xeon processor with 1GB memory and 250GB HDD of the 3GB SATA variety, which means its pretty fast.

I ran some memory checks and it does not take much to squander the meagre 256MB that is left after OS X has taken its lump of the memory map. But I can run several apps before it all goes and we're into some serious disk swapping.

Crucial are selling 2GB FB-DIMM for £178 at the moment, that is where the Mac Mini's PC3700 SODIMM was just before Christmas. So I suppose the FB-DIMM will come down in price over a period of time. I really do think that it needs at least 3GB to be doing what I want to with it. That is Parallels with Windows XP running in a single core (if it can be configured that way) and the remaining three cores being given over to OS X.

Setting up the Mac Pro was as "boring" as was the Mac Mini, and I felt surplus to requirement yet again. It found my WPA-secured wireless network, it found the keyboard and mouse (cable variety), sussed out what my temporary 17" TFT was all about and brought itself into life! Within 15 minutes of taking it out of the box I was up and running, exploring what the beast has to offer. Gosh its quick!!

I took Ben's advice and whipped open the side cover first, before powering it up. Nice, very nice! I am truly impressed with this behemoth - moreso than I was even with the Mac Mini that is sitting by my right elbow :) The sheer promise that is within that huge aluminium case is hard to get my head around.

I know one should never say "never" but, seriously, one could never want for a more powerful machine. Unless, that is, something really stupid happens with Mac's OS in terms of bloatware, and maybe more complex applications.

--------

The Bluewater experience.
I walked in and snared a young lad with the Apple uniform on and told him exactly what I wanted (Mac Pro 2.66GHz, WiFi, Bluetooth, Applecare). Off he trotted to make sure they had all that I wanted in stock. Several minutes later he was back to confirm that they did indeed have it all. He said that they would have to install the WiFi and Bluetooth to prevent invalidating the warranty. Fair enough, not likely to want to do that with a brand new machine. But, it would take at least 1-1/2 hours. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

So an agonising hour went by with me lurking around suspiciously in Bluewater (I drew the stare of a couple of the local bobbies - well I hadn't shaved for a couple of days!). I was delighted to get a phone call just on the hour to say that the Mac Pro was ready for collection.

"Would you like a hand taking it to your car?" inquired the young man. I initially declined, that is until I saw the size of the case on his trolley. Very kindly he trollied it out to the car park for me and we loaded it up and off I went. Carrying it down the garden path to the house was a right chore - this thing is bleedin heavy!!!

[Ben]

Congratulations! I think I was nearly as excited as you were today :p

Remember to read up on how to spread any additional RAM you buy on the riser cards to ensure you maintain DDR, and make sure the RAM is fitted with heatsinks like the ones on the preinstalled RAM. The Mac Pro is a full-on workstation and they meant business with the internals.

I too find it hard to imagine just what could come that would require a more powerful machine than this. As it's arguably one of the most powerful machines money can buy, particularly from a processing standpoint (RAM, HDD and graphics all user servicable), any advances capable of making a Mac Pro choke would have to invalidate almost every other computer and every other laptop on sale today. So, it's safe to say then that the Mac Pro has a life expectancy far beyond the 3-year Applecare. I bet you're already thinking about how to fill up those extra RAM and PCIe slots, not to mention the 3 spare slide-out HDD bays! ;)

Take good care of it, now, wont you!

[3g-g]

God damn I'm so jealous!

[chaslam]

Congrats on the new mac :).

Did you by any chance to see the new apple TV in store, or had they not had them in yet?

[Hands0n]

Head still reeling with the possibilities.

First upgrade will be 2GB memory taking the total to 3GB in the box. Then a 500GB Samsung Spinpoint 3GBps SATA, followed by Parallels and Windows XP to get it to where I can begin to slide this Win/AMD machine off to one side (the youngest is positively drooling at the prospect of getting this beast).

Not really sure what to do with the PCIe slots just yet. The Graphics card is way over anything I need it to do. Perhaps just make use of the dual head capability with another 19" screen. Or perhaps I'll take the plunge and get myself a 32" TFT and be done with :D

@chaslam - I saw plenty of advertising for Apple TV in the store but to be honest I didn't look for the device itself. The floor-staff were heavily plugging iPod as usual, lots of floorspace given over to it. But apart from a huge Sony Bravia in the front window displaying a flashy presentation there didn't seem to be anything specifically on sale there. The web advertising suggests that Apple TV is in store but maybe a call to them would give you a definite answer 0800 039 1010. Are you thinking of going for it in advance of iTunes Store having content? I must admit to being intrigued by the device.

They had the new Airport Extreme (http://www.apple.com/uk/airportextreme/specs.html) in there if anyone is interested. Not sure why I'd buy one of these insteaed of a Linksys or Netgear but it does have the apple logo, so maybe thats good enough these days :D

[chaslam]

@chaslam - I saw plenty of advertising for Apple TV in the store but to be honest I didn't look for the device itself. The floor-staff were heavily plugging iPod as usual, lots of floorspace given over to it. But apart from a huge Sony Bravia in the front window displaying a flashy presentation there didn't seem to be anything specifically on sale there. The web advertising suggests that Apple TV is in store but maybe a call to them would give you a definite answer 0800 039 1010. Are you thinking of going for it in advance of iTunes Store having content? I must admit to being intrigued by the device.

They had the new Airport Extreme (http://www.apple.com/uk/airportextreme/specs.html) in there if anyone is interested. Not sure why I'd buy one of these insteaed of a Linksys or Netgear but it does have the apple logo, so maybe thats good enough these days :D

Yeah, well im not really thinking of getting one just yet, because I would really like to see content downloadable from itunes before I take the plunge.

I really love the apple stores. They are really helpful. Im so jelous of your mac pro haha!

[Ben]

AppleTV really is quite useless in the UK without the wealth of video content iTunes has in the States. Oh well, maybe one day!

[miffed]

Congrats on the purchase !

I may well get one of these in the near / medium future - I was going to upgrade to a 24" iMac , but I am loathed to buy anything from Apple that has a built in screen

Nothing like getting new toy eh ? :D

[Ben]

I found a small insect trapped in one of my Sony LCD's the other day, btw - if that makes you feel any better :)

[miffed]

I found a small insect trapped in one of my Sony LCD's the other day, btw - if that makes you feel any better :)

Much :D

TBH I have used a photograph as my desktop now with a dark patch over the offending area - so it is barely noticable , unless I happen to have a window open in that area (bottom left corner , area 2cm high by 1cm wide) , which is very unlikely on a 20" screen
I have come to terms with it now , the most annoying thing is , If I were to upgrade , I would not be able to sell it as " perfect" - but not to worry

antother concern is that a similar mark may appear in a less forgiving place (i.e. smack bang in the middle !)

On a positive note .... I have been toying with the idea of a projector for a while now :)

[Hands0n]

I went a'spending last night - the final bits of the puzzle are on their way to me now. The list went something like this


2GB FB-DIMM memory from Crucial ~ £175
500GB Samsung Spinpoint 3GB SATA (very fast) ~ £85
Parallels for the Mac ~ £35
Windows XP Pro OEM ~ £85


That little lot will permit me to run XP on one of the computer cores, leaving three for the Mac OS X to play with. Even on a single core, XP will run like a whippet! If you haven't seen Parallels Coherence at work take a look at this! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN9jNNeEd98). It just blew me away. I thought of Parallels as similar in visual terms to running VNC or Remote Desktop. But Coherence takes things a step further and just integrates the app so well into the Mac desktop. I'm sold, after seeing the demo I just had to get on with finishing the Mac build out. Tell you more when I get it built - probably over the weekend!

Now here's a laugh - today, at work, we started to build an IBM eSeries blade server with dual Xeon 3GHz processors, 2GB memory and 700GB of HDD 600 of which is in a RAID config. This server will run Microsoft SBS for a team of 30 people (Exchange, IIS, SQL Server, the works). Apart from the 3GHz processors and the lack of RAID on my Mac Pro my beast matches it almost point for point! But this one is all for me, not sharing with 29 other stinkies :D

[Ben]

Oh my, Coherence looks just awesome! I may have to give that a try... I assume it costs extra or something? :S

WRT the blades - it's crazy just how overspec'd the Mac Pro is :D But I wouldn't have it any other way, and I'm sure after using yours you'd agree!

[Hands0n]

Awsome is a good word to use :eek: Coherence comes within Parallels, nothing extra. I just love the way it sleekly integrates the Windows application into the Mac desktop without showing the Windows desktop too! That, for me, has prompted me to take the plunge into Parallels.

They also have a migration assistant that literally hoovers up your XP machine and passes it over the network to the Parallels Desktop on the Mac, installing it on the VM without any intervention. It will probably trigger a re-register of XP as the hardware has changed!

I'm tempted but will probably just go for a fresh XP install and then judiciously copy over all the stuff that I need - mostly living in My Documents as ususal.

I'm staggered with what is sitting on my table still - especially as after my experience with the IBM eSeries blade today. I'd love to see the Pro with Bootcamp kicking off an SBS - it'd probably be the cheapest way of running such a server in an SME. Hmmmmm *gets to thinking*

[miffed]

I went the Parallels route originally , It ran XP fine , but unfortunately there were a couple of issues (don't know if these still apply)
Firstly , and most relevantly it didn't support USB 2 , and secondly , I When I switched over to Vista I found that it didn't support the "amazing" (:rolleyes: ) aero effects

(Speaking of the "amazing" aero effects .... check this out !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ)

I must agree though , Coherrance is amazing , and really gives most people EXACTLY what they want from a VM - the ability to run Windows stuff INSIDE OS X , from their OS X desktop

Thinking of scrapping Vista and giving Linux a go , But it sounds quite labour intensive to me , or perhaps I am just lazy !

[Ben]

Desktop linux is labour intensive. That YouTube video was rather nice, but a lot of that eyecandy would annoy the hell out of me rather than help me use my computer better. OS X's visuals are functional for the most part.

Parallels seems to be updated rather regularly. It's a hard one to perfect, mind, but it's certainly more than ready for the prime time.

[Hands0n]

According to the Parallells website it does now support Vista. Don't know about the USB2 stuff at the moment. Not too troubled really even if it doesn't. That part of the equation is going over to the Mac courtesy of The Missing Sync (gotta keep that Windows PDA on the go).

I have been around Linux for simply ages and to date it is still not something that I believe that I could use productively on a daily basis. There is just too much hacking needed to get it up, running and stable. The distro teams have had long enough to get their heads around making it suitable for the consumer, and have failed to do so. Most people, I contend, would be put off all of the distros of Linux simply because it does not install as straightforwardly as Windows and Mac OS. Try to get a WiFi card working in a Linux system and you've got a major headache on. It can be done, lately by a wrapper that you can load the WiFi adapter's Windows driver into. Okay, so it works, but FFS how long has WiFi been out for? And to actually do it is not exactly trivial, nor does it work always! Sadly, then, Linux [desktop] is really only for the Geeks and other tech-heads and not the general consumer.

Now Linux as a server ........ that is a different story altogether, but it is increasingly having to face up against the M$ server family which is, like its desktops, getting easier to set up and administer all of the time (if in doubt run up a copy of SBS some time!).

I've yet to be sold on Vista - I really have a major beef with the way they've integrated DRM into the OS itself. This nonsense of degrading the video/audio if not put through HDMI to a suitable HD device positively gets on my t*ts. And if I'm unlikely to buy into an OS that aggrieves me quite so much. I'll more happily re-train myself to Apple's OS X than put myself under the cosh of Vista. Many I know feel similarly, that DRM and the way its been integrated into Vista smells rather badly.


Edit: Arrrrrrrrrgh! Dabs are holding on waiting for delivery of Parllells before shipping the HDD and XP out to me! Damn, thats this weekend gone before I get my hands on the bits and pieces! I'm going to be digging out my digital camera and stack of tapes in preparation for doing some serious digitising of the miles of family stuff we have stashed away and never look at.

[3g-g]

Sadly, then, Linux [desktop] is really only for the Geeks and other tech-heads and not the general consumer.

Now this is what I am not, a tech savvy geek boy! Yet, in a stupid whim of boredom I downloaded the .iso of Ubuntu, changed the boot sequence of my PC, and installed the bad boy, it seems fine, there's a lot of wee things to get my head around and it's getting late, however here lies the problem...

On the restart of the PC I get the option of the 2 OS, this and XP... Ubuntu loads fine, and is in the process of doing some updating as we speak, XP however, starts to load then looks for an Autocheck something or other and then drops dead, restarting the PC!! What the fook have I done!?

I have a system recovery disk should the worst come to the worst, and failing that I can see me becoming an Apple customer sooner rather than later! Or I'll go down the Vista route, that's if I really have shafted myself royally!

Gents, help!

[Hands0n]

The dual-boot into XP or Ubuntu should not have caused you such a problem. Can you give us the entire error message that comes up when rebooting XP and if you can tell when it comes up - i.e. after the XP startup flash screen or before?

When you load a Linux alonside XP the distro pops a bootloader on the hard drive to allow you the dual-boot. XP may have taken exception to something about that bootloader.

I don't think you're quite in the territory of an XP re-load, yet.

Read up on Vista carefully before taking the plunge. Also be aware of some of its early bugs such as this one http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/26/vista_copying_bug/ that really should not be there!!!

I really cannot find much to say against Apple's Mac OS X other than it is "different" to Windows and you may find that you are incompatible with others at times. Although there are no end of software that allows you to share files (i.e. Neo Office = MS Office, most of the browsers are there - I use Firefox on Windows and OS X, email is fully compatible). There is also stuff that allows you to use devices such as Windows PDAs with OS X such as "The Missing Sync", the list goes on :)

[3g-g]

I'll pop the error message up when I get back later today, I'm off to work now, on a lighter note as I was severly pi$$ed off last night when I said to the missus this morning about XP not starting she said lightheartedly "ahh, that's just cos you want a new computer" and I suppose she's right, but I didn't really intend on getting it this way! Or did I? :rolleyes:

Anyway, thank god for Gmail which still has a copy of everything in the web version of it!

[Hands0n]

I normally find that the "pathetic whining" thing works a treat with my Mrs. After about four days she even offers to drive me to the shop to buy the thing and even carry it back to the car for me. That and scattering magazines and flyers for whatever it is all over the house. I seem to recall the Russians using similar associative techniques during the Cold War :)

[gorilla]

I normally find that the "pathetic whining" thing works a treat with my Mrs.

Silly me, I read that first time round and assumed the "pathetic whining" thing was the wife :D

[Hands0n]

The memory upgrade arrived from Crucial this morning. Snapping the memory in to the Mac Pro is a breeze, just pull out the lower card, pop the memory in place and slide the card back in the chassis. Put the cover back on, job done!

You are supposed to put the memory in a certain order, and inside the cover is a nice simple printout of how to distribute the memory across the pair of cards. Simple pimple! This I like.

Dabs say they are sending the stuff out today - so that is a Monday arrival, Tuesday install at the very earliest.

The memory map now looks pretty good (see attached jpg). :cool:


Edit: Just when you thought it was safe to go out :) along comes Intel again. Quad Core (http://www3.intel.com/cd/business/enterprise/emea/eng/bss/products/server/167015.htm?ppc_cid=uk_16)? *dribble* the thought is compelling, an 8 processor Mac Pro? Expect one before the end of 2007 methinks!

[Hands0n]

Silly me, I read that first time round and assumed the "pathetic whining" thing was the wife :D

Nah! This one don't whine, she goes shopping in Bluewater if I upset her :p

[Ben]

Edit: Just when you thought it was safe to go out :) along comes Intel again. Quad Core (http://www3.intel.com/cd/business/enterprise/emea/eng/bss/products/server/167015.htm?ppc_cid=uk_16)? *dribble* the thought is compelling, an 8 processor Mac Pro? Expect one before the end of 2007 methinks!
Rumour has it this could be very soon indeed, and given Apple's need to always have an absolutely top-end product (perhaps neglecting the need for a mid-range one!) I can actually believe the rumours. Mac Pro owners have already done their own a la carte upgrades.

The new quad-core's are socket compatible, should you get bored with just four cores, Hands0n ;)

[Hands0n]

Y'know, I just might grab a pair of these when the prices drop. I've had too many years where I've seen processors come and go, the sockets change and then I'm stuffed with nowhere to go in terms of upgrade but a full mobo replacement (or in this case an entire system!!!). The Lord alone knows how much these quaddies are going to come down to but I'll be keeping an eagle eye open on their progress. Cant see them ever dropping below the £100 mark though!!

Talking of mid-range - here's an insane thought for you, perhaps Apple will make their 2GHz dual-core Xeon the mid-ranger and pop a quaddie as the top box (until Intel bring out their oct-core processor, and don't tell me that won't happen).

The thing is, with all of this core multiplication, surely memory is going to rapidly become the bottleneck, again! Thinking about it, I've got four computing cores fighting it out among themselves for a share in what is now 3GB of RAM. I know its not a linear equation, but if they're all at it then they are occupying some [perhaps significant] memory footprint. Even a 4GB or 8GB system could then become restrained by the amount of physical RAM in the box. Not that I've been able to get even close to occuping very much in my system, I loaded up every single app that I could find, and loaded some data into it too, and still hadn't consumed one Gig!! Now that is what I call memory management :) But then Un*x had that sussed decades ago :p

[Ben]

Well, the eight core Mac Pro did indeed arrive as speculated. Apple pulled one out of the bag, though, and launched an eight-core 3GHz model, using a brand new Intel part (competitors have only had the 2.66GHz part so far).

However, I hear that the logic board (motherboard) used in the Mac Pro's (and all such machines, such as comparible Dell Precisions) isn't optimised for eight cores. They were optimised for four cores, but the extra use of the front-side-bus that, essentially, four dual-core processors require puts extra strain on the system and doesn't realise its full potential. A new Intel chipset will be released in the near future to address this. Obviously eight core is still far more powerful than four core, though, so it's still a great drop-in upgrade path.

Of course, very few people would actually ever utilise eight cores at 3GHz. It'd be fab setup for rendering and such, but, while dual-core makes sense for true multitasking, even quad-core is OTT.

[Hands0n]

Well well :) How very nice of Apple, two weeks after I buy my slow-as-a-slug quad-core Mac Pro! :D

I've never seen anything render a home movie DVD quite as quickly as this behemoth! Impressed I most definitely am.

Parallels takes a huge swipe at the RAM in the machine - I feel another 2GB coming on :eek: But not until a future payday.

I reckon you're right about 8-core being a bit OTT. Apple are taking the pi55 here but it all comes down to marketing appeal. How many folk would like just to have an 8-core or even 16-core system on their desk just because? Probably the same type who buy a Nissan Skyline or suchlike only to be restricted to 70MPH on our roads! That'll be me then :D :D

Edit: Not that I've got a Skyline!!

[Ben]

Hehe ;) I think it's definitely a machine for appeal at the top of the range, the Apple flagship product.

[miffed]

Well well :) How very nice of Apple, two weeks after I buy my slow-as-a-slug quad-core Mac Pro! :D



Same old same old - As sure as night follows day , you can be assured , that if you buy anything from Apple , it will be superceeded the following week :(

A freind of mine has just bought a Mac Pro too - he was a little worried about when leopard was going to be launched and voiced his concerns , and they told him that as soon as it is released, they will either supply it .... OR SWAP HIS MAC PRO FOR ANOTHER ONE !!! - I understand the free upgrade , but can't imagine how they can afford to swap the machine over !!
It's not as if he spent a fortune (£1699 - which I understand is the bog standard one ? ) - We'll see if Apple are as good as their word when they get around to launching !

[Hands0n]

BLIMEY! :eek: I'd be gobsmacked if they did that. As the actress says "What's my motiviation?" :D Good luck on him if they do though *green* :)

[gorilla]

So tell me, will these new fancy 8 core jobbies let me surf, send emails, and do a wee bit or typing? :p Or are they just an expensive paper weight :eek: All at the same time!!!

[Hands0n]

Blimey! If thats all you want to do you really didn't need to uprade much past the Sinclair Spectrum 48 :D

Seriously, all of this symmetric multiprocessing systems stuff is great, but we really have a huge amount of trouble making them work as one might expect. The software writers have to write specifically to make use of the symmetric multiprocessors - which most do not. It is highly specialised stuff.

For any of us mere mortal users - probably - the best we can anticipate is a significant removal of the single-cpu bottleneck. As we run multiple tasks the OS passes each one on to a discrete and separate processor. To us, the whole appears to run quicker and smoother. Nothing like it would if the software were to truly make use of the multiple processing cores!

Apart form that - the Mac Pro makes a gorgeous paperweight. Just don't drop one on your foot - you'll never walk the same again!! :p

[miffed]

So tell me, will these new fancy 8 core jobbies let me surf, send emails, and do a wee bit or typing? :p Or are they just an expensive paper weight :eek: All at the same time!!!

Depend what OS you use - if you use Vista , you'd probably have to do them one at a time

[Hands0n]

Yea! Microsoft Outlook - startup - 100% CPU utilisation - whole machine freezes - not just me - every copy of Outlook I've ever seen!!! WTF's that all about? :( :confused: :mad:

I've known no other eMail client do anything like that - even Lotus Notes is CPU-friendly by comparison.

[miffed]

100% CPU utilisation - whole machine freezes

I am not "techy" minded in the slightest , but the thing that finally got me to switch back to XP was when I accidently added a CPU/RAM usage "Gadget" (widget) to the desktop - I noticed that the needle on the CPU guage was almost constantly on on 90 -100% , even when it was doing nothing ! (it is a 2Ghz Core duo )

Since removing it from the Macbook , I have Installed it on my iMac , and noticed that it runs a whole lot better , despite only having 512mb of ram (same proccesor ) - but it does not run any of the "aero" rubbish due to the low amount of RAM - but the result is a far more usable OS using only a quarter of the RAM !! -
Can't be bothered to install it in the Macbook again , but I am guessing that it'd run fine with the Aero rubbish turned off ( assuming it can be turned off ? ) -and I am sure I can live without being able to see through the .5cm around the windows :rolleyes: )

[Hands0n]

Are/were you running Vista in Parallels or Bootcamp? Aero is supposed to be a right CPU hog, I really don't know what M$ are playing at. Their coding just seems to get worse and worse. If a regular PC (these days) can happily run the likes of Doom and its like, what on earth are M$ programmers doing to make a simple window effect use up 100% CPU. Especially, as you say, it is doing so when the user us not actually doing anything at all on the machine!

There really is no excuse for such sloppy programming, even it does look amazingly cool. Perhaps they should have got the game writers to write their Windows display code! For sure, their own progammers are not up to the task!

I find it staggering that an eMail client and a Windowing OS can consume 100% CPU for any reason at all! God help us if we actually want to run one or two bona fide applications on our PCs :eek:

[miffed]

I have only run Vista through boot camp - I did try it in Parallels ,(allocated 1g of ram) - it took me about two minutes to decide that it was not a good move !
By contrast , I have now put XP back on my Macbook ( parallels ) and it boots within 30 seconds , runs super-fast and I rarely hear from the fans ( perhaps the 2 minutes of Vista burnt them out ? )

[Hands0n]

Hmmm, have felt disinclined to even flirt with Vista. I guess that one day I'll have to migrate to it as surely as I migrated away from windows 95 :) But for [quite] a while I plan to stay on XP SP2, as it is.

Interestingly I am finding more and more apps for the Mac that will help me marginalise my domestic use of the Wintel platform. Possibly even my business use as the application developers write increasingly for this platform.

[miffed]

I simply felt that I had to experience Vista , now I have had "a go" , I am quite contented & happy , and reassured that I made the right decision switching to Apple in the first place !
The Vista disc is now on the shelf with my old digital camera , my PSP and a pile of old mobiles that I no longer use :D

I look forward to Leopard - but TBH if it turns out that it "sucks" , I'll happiy go back to Tiger , safe in the knowledge that it is better (IMO ) tha n Vista .... had I not done this little experiment , I'd always be wondering about it !

[Hands0n]

Hmmm, Tiger is indeed a very credible OS from Apple. I'm pleased with it. As Ben says, OS X is different to Windows. And why shouldn't it be? But the key, for me, is the fact that I am able to actually do productive domestic and business work on it, all without the issues and paranoia associated with Windows.

If Leopard is an enhanced development on Tiger, within the OS X lineage, then it will be a positive step. iLife 07 is supposed to be something good - and I am getting on famously with iLife 06. Transitioning from the Windows world of the likes of Pinnacle Studio to iMovie and iDVD has been entirely painless. Not integrated into one app like Studio, but no less capable and the results are much better in iLife 06.

You've got me thinking about experiencing Vista - my new firm has an Action Pack so I may just borrow the Vista Ultimate CD and check it out for myself in a VM or a spare box (I've got a Shuttle SFF somewhere here!!). I'm put off by M$'s slavish adoption of enhanced DRM and how they're implementing it in respect of HD TV. I really do not want anyone controlling how I view stuff, or I'll simply not bother!

[Ben]

All of the OS X releases so far have been somewhat evolutionary rather than revolutionary, so hopefully we'll keep everything we enjoy in Tiger and just gain updates and enhancements. That said, Tiger was a massive step forward for Apple and OS X - I remember the extensive TV news coverage of the 'genie effect' dock, the exposé functionality and the widgets/dashboard well.

I'm not bonkers crazy for Leopard like some of the Macfolk are on the various forums, but I want it - which is a lot more than I can say for Vista. Maybe next year after a few service packs, if I can be bothered.

[Hands0n]

Having owned one (now two) for a few months I can well understand the almost religious fervour exhibited by some. When everthing you've ever done before starts to become simpler and simpler to accomplish you tend to wonder why you never took the plunge earlier. But I do believe that this is as much to do wtih OS X than anything else. It certainly isn't much to do with the hardware, which is truly a delight.

But my earlier days experiences with Apple Macs were plain confusing.

[Ben]

Yes, everything pre-OS X didn't inspire me much. OS X, particularly with Tiger, really did become a viable 'next generation' operating system. Of course, as it's limited to Apple hardware there's no knowing what weaknesses would have been exposed had the OS been licenced out to PC makers (Apple could never fight M$'s financial power and tactics anyway), but fortunately that doesn't matter. It does, unfortunately, just mean that the 'next generation' OS is limited to a relatively small number of users.

Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit lucky? :D

[Hands0n]

I simply felt that I had to experience Vista , now I have had "a go" , I am quite contented & happy , and reassured that I made the right decision switching to Apple in the first place !
The Vista disc is now on the shelf with my old digital camera , my PSP and a pile of old mobiles that I no longer use :D

I've just run up a copy of Vista from the Action Pack - I'm running it in a VM using M$'s Virtual PC 2007 (free from their website) on my PeeCee. No real interest in sullying the Mac Pro with this just yet. I'll have to reserve judgement on Vista for the moment (my own gripes against M$'s suck-up DRM implementation notwithstanding). But it looks and feels a bit strange, rather unusual, possibly a bit like XP felt after years of NT3.51 and then Windows 2000.

I guess this is where we're all heading in the PC world - those that are not migrating to Apple Mac that is. But XP will be around for quite a while unless M$ makes a push. There are plenty of Win2000 and earlier boxes in production so I can't see the need to junk XP just yet awhile.

Interesting nonetheless. Just glad its in a VM and not a real box!

[Hands0n]

Weird one this ......

Having spent a very long weekend (well, it felt like one!!) swapping over from the PC to the Mac Pro f'real ...... I jacked in my speakers (not the good 'uns [Harman/Kardon Soundsticks] 'cos they're on the Mini) and tweaked the sound settings. Healthy clicks and pops as I made the adjustments so all's well there then ..... Or is it? .... When visiting websites or playing any kind of sound it comes out of the Pro's internal speaker! No matter what I do - switching from Internal to Line Out made no difference. Bah! Summat's broke, grrrrr

I put up with it for a few days, but tonight it gave me the ar*e so I had a fiddle. In the end I switched it to Digital Out, then back to Line Out and it worked!! Whats that all about then?! This is what I expect from Windows (all of its variants, even Vista - but thats another story). I certainly don't expect strangely/flaky from OS X.

Oh well, it goes to show that OS X isn't quite 100% then :D

[Ben]

I had a similar experience getting sound to come out of my Mac Pro initially. It's definitely not as 'easy' as it should be, hell, even after changing the settings that should be automatic it appears not to make any difference, but then, as you found, it starts working, so all's well that ends well!

[miffed]

Same old same old - As sure as night follows day , you can be assured , that if you buy anything from Apple , it will be superceeded the following week :(

A freind of mine has just bought a Mac Pro too - he was a little worried about when leopard was going to be launched and voiced his concerns , and they told him that as soon as it is released, they will either supply it .... OR SWAP HIS MAC PRO FOR ANOTHER ONE !!! - I understand the free upgrade , but can't imagine how they can afford to swap the machine over !!
It's not as if he spent a fortune (£1699 - which I understand is the bog standard one ? ) - We'll see if Apple are as good as their word when they get around to launching !

LOL , now that Leopard has been put back till Autumn ( :confused: ) I see how they were able to make this "promise" ( they told him if it was launched within the next couple of months they'd sort it out ) - methinks they knew damn well it WOULDN"T be !!

[Ben]

Hehe, unfortunately employees, retail and resellers especially, aren't privy to that information, so you can reassure him that he hasn't been duped :D

The upgrade fee isn't too expensive anyway, usually. I'm almost relieved that the date has been pushed back, it delays the inevitable headache of upgrading all my machines.

Maybe they'll use the extra time to put the touches on our 3G iPhone, eh? :D

[miffed]

it delays the inevitable headache of upgrading all my machines.

Maybe they'll use the extra time to put the touches on our 3G iPhone, eh? :D


Well, the official line is that the reason for delay is to focus on the iPhone , so you never know ... :D

That would be something worth getting excited about !

[3g-g]

Just a point about the speakers, 'tis the same for me, if I have the external speakers tuned off I get no sound from the internal ones, yet the moment I power them back on, with no change to the mac itself, the internals start to work, mysterious.

[Ben]

You've got it sorted though, yeah? You just have sound coming through your external speakers?

System Preferences > Sound > Output

(actually, I've never hooked up externals to an iMac)

[3g-g]

(actually, I've never hooked up externals to an iMac)

Yeah, the sound's fine, but I need externals to make loud music, loud music is best!