[stuartturrell]

Currently on orange, (will be until november unless i can find a way out of the contract), but wondering, how are all the networks doing with HSDPA??

I hear vodafone (from this forum) are putting a lot of resources into it, what about orange, t-mobile and 3? Not bothered about o2, they lost the plot when 3g was invented! ;)

Stuart

[Hands0n]

T-Mobile's network is HSDPA - I'm not sure if they've reached 100% of their network yet but at last news they were well on their way to it.

Ben has reported 1.2Mbps downstream and some 384Kbps upstream on Vodafone.

Don't get me started about O2 :D

[Ben]

Yeah, T-Mobile's entire 3G network is HSDPA enabled, or so I have come to believe for some reason or another, but the main issue is that the footprint of coverage is a little behind Orange and Vodafone (again, afaik).

Orange have only just committed to covering the major cities(?!).

Vodafone will, afaik, have their whole 3G network upgraded to HSDPA by the end of summer 2007, and it's quite a network they have. I've now been upgraded in Whitstable, Kent, and I've had HSDPA coverage around central London and the West Midlands.

O2 seem a little lost...

Not sure about 3. They are deploying HSDPA, but I assume they're starting with the hotspots. Due to the age of their 3G network I'd be surprised if they have more HSDPA coverage than Vodafone.

[getti]

T-Mobile's 3G network is 100% HSDPA but they only have 65% coverage to date. From what I have heard 3's rollout is happening in March and will be a FULL NATIONAL rollout so 90% HSDPA coverage in the UK. Basicly if you get 3G on 3 you get HSDPA

[3GScottishUser]

T-Mobile's 3G network is 100% HSDPA but they only have 65% coverage to date. From what I have heard 3's rollout is happening in March and will be a FULL NATIONAL rollout so 90% HSDPA coverage in the UK. Basicly if you get 3G on 3 you get HSDPA

3's HSDPA rollout will take some time to complete as it requires a lot of hardware replacement due to the age of their equipment compared with other operators. Major cities will be the first priority and Ericsson will upgrade all of the newer equipment with software solutions for HSDPA through time.

3 are making nothing of HSDPA for now despite having an LG handset in their range. Vodafone, T-Mobile and now Orange have dedicated business products taking advantage of HSDPA, each using different branding, Mobile Broadband etc although each have limited coverage so far. Vodafone probably has the largest HSDPA coverage in te UK presently and will be making a significant change in data charging in March.

[Hands0n]

I just hope that the Data Tariffs are brought into some kind of position where the customer is actually encouraged to use it, what with all of this huge effort to put out HSDPA into the network.

At rates of upto £7.50 per Megabyte it is hard to imagine that the MNOs will recoup their HSDPA spend in anything less than a decade.

The only network who have an [in any way] attractive Data proposition is T-Mobile at the moment. All of the others either charge punitively as if for a "Premium" service, or their packages are more tailored to businesses who are able to recoup some of the spend as a tax expense.

There is simply not enough business use out there to justify such a large-scale investment in HSDPA (and later HSUPA), so one has to hope that there is a strategy aimed at the non-business customer.

If not, the 3G white elephant becomes an increasingly expensive folly.

[3GScottishUser]

I have to agree with the above. HSDPA is really not that important for viewing stuff on a handset screen, it comes into its own when using a laptop or PDA.

I imagine that is the reason 3 are not making anything of it and using non-HSDPA handsets for their x-series. Then again with a lot of their coverage using equipment thats 5 years old they have a big job ahead replacing the gear to rollout the faster data service and I imagine they have to be careful because as we all know they are cost cutting presently. Hard to justify the expense for such a small user base with very limited business users. I think it will be commercial companies that make use of HSDPA first and they are the most likely ones to pay a premium for it. I doubt if customers care whether they can download a song in 30 seconds or 10 really. Watching kids exchanging stuff with IR and Bluetooth they seem pretty happy to put up with slow transfer rates as long as they can swap stuff for free!

[getti]

The 3 HSDPA rollout is really gettting into gear March time..... and on checking internally today it STILL looks like a full national rollout of HSDPA to all the current 3G sites around the country.

I am pretty sure most of it is already done but they are waiting until March to flick the switch and turn it on for everyone.

Then they can promote all their 3G sites now include HSDPA for high speed access. Would tie in with the N95 launch and also allow the LG U830 and Motorola V3xx to get the extra access

[Hands0n]

I'm absolutely certain that much of this will pan out during 2007, but it is agonising waiting and watching these mobile operators go through the motions as if in some kind of different time-space continuum.

Lots of Chickens and Eggs all over the place vying for head position. Who comes first, the data network or the data tariff? What about selling "services" over the data portion of the network? £5 a month for a "service" and £180 a month for the data consumed in using it? That'll hardly fly.

But still, and agonisingly, no sign of wholesale data tariff reductions to make the use of an affordable practicality for any but business or ultra-keen users (us lot?).

The lone exception, to some degree, has to be T-Mobile and its Web N Walk Plus with its 3GB limit (the highest quantity of data per £1?). But a way to go before [at that price of £12.50] it becomes acceptable/affordable to the mainstream user. And of course, the kids are unlikely to be able to afford anything like that from their monthly allowances. The kids, remember, that the mobile ops are perplexed as to how to get increased revenue from over and above texting and the occasional voice call.

[3GScottishUser]

"STILL looks like" = a guess!!

In another thread it was stated "I was on the train from Barnstaple to Torquay and was on a Motorola V3xx. Around Dawlish the symbol on the phone changed to a pink 'H' which means HSDPA. The pages loaded before i even clicked on them (well so it felt like). Also downloading a song took around 10 seconds which currently takes 22 seconds on a 1.8mb HSDPA connection."

So therefore 3 must have some of their sites activated for HSDPA already otherwise the phone would not have indicated it received the service.

None of the networks are likely to make much of the HSDPA service to private consumers because it simply won't mean anything to most folks. Existing services that require 3G speeds have been about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip and I suspect the networks will be careful not to confuse customers any further with services that are of no interest to the average mobile user.

Just because new phones have a new feature included does not mean that the networks will choose to promote it. Almost every 3G phone sports a secondary camera for videocalling yet none of the networks bother promoting that now as they have learned that its not popular with consumers. It took a very long time for WAP take-up to develop despite it being available on most handsets. Many customers simply did'nt want to bother with it!!

HSDPA will make a difference for business customers using mobiles as modems. It won't make much of a difference for pure handset applications like web browsing on a tiny screen or even video at the resolution on phone displays.

The networks have to be careful not to frighten customers with new technology, especially the vast majority of people who still buy a mobile to talk, text and take a few snaps. Complex devices like the N95 will account for a very small segment of the mobile market and many of them that are sold will be used for a lot less than they were ever designed for.

I think HSDPA will evolve steadily over the next few years and it will become a very significant service for those who need higher speed data on the move. Vodafone and T-Mobile are pointing the way with carefully targetted marketing that explains the key benefits to those who have a genuine need for HSDPA speeds. If 3 try the 'revolution' approach again with HSDPA they will simply antagonise existing customers and confuse potential new ones and it would'nt be the first time they have done that. With the ink barely dry on x-series it would be a kamakaze marketing folly if 3 tried to make a spash with another product that most customers simply don't understand or need! If 3 sales staff start promoting HSDPA in 3Stores to the general public the competition will rub their hands with glee!!

[Hands0n]

The only way in which *any* mobile op can try to promote HSDPA (as if there were an alternative to be heading for) will be similar to how ADSL is promoted over V95 dial-up. All that malarky about being up to 20 times faster and suchlike.

But, and this is the rub, who are they competing with other than themselves? Also they cannot attempt to charge a premium - even the ADSL players found that out after a short while, where competition and need to recoup the investment in the technology has forced pricing down to dial-up levels as they were.

But in any event will the public buy? I suspect only if the data tariffs are equitable to them (the customer). Faster speeds to the handset, I tend to agree with 3GSU, are unlikely to be of any attraction to the average punter.

HSDPA has to address the impending threat of WiMAX and suchlike. If the 3G networks are not to become dusty old memories of what could have been, and simply continue to carry voice and text, the mobops have to do something to promote use of their investment in the licences.