[gnomex]

The specs for the new Nokia N95 look impressive - especially as I'm up for an upgrade later this year!

However a trawl about the web suggests that the 'phone is not going to be available on Orange. Has anyone heard anything concrete on this?

[getti]

Orange will launch the N95, but when is a good question. Stock is coming into the UK in the 1st week of March and so far T-Mobile, 3 and O2 have said they will sell the phone in March this year.

[3GScottishUser]

The N95 makes most sense on a network that has a bundle that includes Wi-Fi hotspot use. With HSDPA it'll be good for modem use too so it probably fits best on T-Mobile with Web'N'Walk Pro with the 1 year free Wi-Fi Hotspot use that includes all of BT's Openzones as well as T-Mobiles own Wi-Fi coverage.

Orange's current data tariffs make the N95 and any other phone a non-starter for data use.... goodness knows why they bother offering such devices as it's extortionate to use them once the trial period expires.

3 have no modem access available nor do they have any inclusive Wi-Fi hot-sopt coverage, so most of the enhanced features on the N95 are rendered useless. HSDPA might offer improved speed but most apps run at 64Kb/s for mobile screen displays so the N95 won't make much of a difference in terms of X-Series mobile screen based viewing.

02 have yet to make much of mobile data but they do have some Wi-Fi roaming agreements in place for business users only presently.

Looking at what is currently on offer only T-Mobile appear to have the infrastructure and roaming agreements in place to make anythng worthwhile from investing in a handset with the facilities the N95 promises.

[Ben]

HSDPA might offer improved speed but most apps run at 64Kb/s for mobile screen displays so the N95 won't make much of a difference in terms of X-Series mobile screen based viewing.
I'm not sure if that's correct, applications can surely use as much bandwidth as is available when using packet switched data.

[getti]

Ben is right on this one, Software will run at what ever speed the network is connected at. So if you get HSDPA the connection speed for X-Series will be HSDPA

[3GScottishUser]

In theory it is better but in reality when a stream is to a tiny mobile screen then the bandwidth required is much less. HSDPA should only really make a noticable difference when used with bandwidth intensive devices like Notebooks and High Spec PDA's.

The above is the primary reason for networks restricting or charging extra for modem use. Of course data will have a greater capacity with HSDPA but the device limits the requirement for excessive bandwidth, screen display requirements for video are much less on handsets and consequently mobile networks can stream reliably to more customers similtaniously.

The fact that 3 have chosen to offer streaming from Sling boxes over standard 3G proves that HSDPA is not an issue and will not improve those types of services for handset users. 3 do not currently offer any HSDPA enabled handsets for their X-Series presently anyway.

[gnomex]

The comments I've heard are to the effect that Orange have been less than happy with the reliability of the N series in general (and the N80 in particular) and that that is the reason they won't be including the N95 in their range.

[gnomex]

Just found this thread.....

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/archive/index.php/t-48944.html

[Hands0n]

I think 3GSU is right with relation to video over the networks - either streaming program material or videocalling, either way 64Kbps is about all its needs.

For other "data" purposes the higher speed of vanilla 3G and HSDPA will make sense - I'm thinking here of file transfers or music/video downloads as opposed to streaming.

The reliability of the N-series has scarred the reputation of Nokia, who have been clumsy with the quality of the release firmware and not particularly quick to resolve the issues - preferring initial denial to other more Customer-focussed methods of dealing with the issues. Classic inside-out thinking from the corporation.

Perhaps this is why the N95 is so long coming. I'd lay money that its as buggy as hell right now. No doubt it'll still be buggy on release, and several versions will have to go by before a solid reliable handset becomes apparent.

I agree with 3GSU that the only practical UK network for the N95 has to be T-Mobile with their data-friendly tariffs and network. All of the others, including Vodafone, are in T-Mobile's wake. I reckon that Vodafone are closest on T-Mobile's heels. Orange are positively hostile to any data usage in tariff terms. O2 are lamentable in their deployment of 3G let alone HSDPA - whats the point of a handset like the N95 when there isn't the network to back it up? 3, poor dears, have a very suitable network and a hostile approach to Customers using it for data, they're stuck in the Dark Ages.

My money is on an N95 using T-Mobile Flext with Web N Walk Plus or Pro - that would represent the best value for money. Vodafone next, if they issue suitable Data Tariffs in time - the existing are way too expensive - the T-Mobile £12 for 3GB monthly FUP is acceptably good value.

All of the others will be also-rans in the Data Tariff stakes, and utterly pointless in the Nokia N95 stakes. My tuppenceworth :D

[whatleydude]

Perhaps this is why the N95 is so long coming. I'd lay money that its as buggy as hell right now...


And you'd be right...

[Ben]

I really think that anybody wanting this handset in the near future should think twice.

No Nokia S60 I've owned has been bug-free right off the bat. My experiences have ranged from slow to practically unusable with plenty of crashes and restarts. Hell, even my N73 played up until I updated it via Nokia's website and that was months old when I bought it.

Early adopters of the N95 will more than likely be asking for trouble, unfortunately :( Fortunately forums like Talk3G will provide a good indication of just how good or bad things are before the majority of us have to part with any cash.

All that said, I'd take a buggy S60 over Windows Mobile any day, HSDPA and 5mp camera or otherwise :D

[gnomex]

Personally I'm not due for the upgrade for a while yet but I was hoping that by June/July with a good 5 months behind it it they might have ironed out the usual bugs by time I got round to making the change.

[Hands0n]

I'm in the same boat as gnomex :) By the time you suckers have cut your teeth and pulled your hair out us cool dudes will be buying completely bug-free N95s :D

But then again ................ I just gotta have one .......... gimme one .........now pleeeeeeze :eek:

[stuartturrell]

regarding HSDPA, i heard that 3 would be the best network to offer this as they will haev a huge bandwidth compared to the rest of the UK networks. (almost double i have seen quoted somewhere) 3mb compared to 1.5mb.

Is this likely to be true, if so, i am sure 3 will be appealing for the N95 too.

[Hands0n]

It may well be true - but in due course we can expect all of the networks to strive to deliver the highest amount of bandwidth across HSDPA as a marketing positive.

However, for me, I find more significant when making choices is not the speed of the data but the quantity. For example, 3 have a FUP of 1GB with stringent penalties and charges for going over currently whereas for the same money T-Mobile's FUP is 3GB with the risk of an approach by T-Mobile to stop going over or they "may" reduce your data speed until you do!

[getti]

regarding HSDPA, i heard that 3 would be the best network to offer this as they will haev a huge bandwidth compared to the rest of the UK networks. (almost double i have seen quoted somewhere) 3mb compared to 1.5mb.

Is this likely to be true, if so, i am sure 3 will be appealing for the N95 too.

The way i read it, 3 bought the largest license for 3G which also gave them the most spectrum and bandwith in theory.

Trials for HSDPA have all gone fine and it is already started to roll out in a few places. The national rollout of HSDPA was said to be March which means all 90% coverage 3 have will also be covered by 3G (compared to 65% on T-Mobile and 77% on Vodafone).

They are also testing the 3.8mb speed so personally i think when it gets switched on you will be browsing at 2x the speed of the current networks HSDPA.

Reason i think this is the signal i got about 2 weeks back. I was on the train from Barnstaple to Torquay and was on a Motorola V3xx. Around Dawlish the symbol on the phone changed to a pink 'H' which means HSDPA. The pages loaded before i even clicked on them (well so it felt like). Also downloading a song took around 10 seconds which currently takes 22 seconds on a 1.8mb HSDPA connection.

[3GScottishUser]

Cost will prevent 3 from upgrading its entire network to HSDPA as much of the hardware has to be replaced and at 5 years old it is nowhere near the end of its lifespan. 3 will doubtless be careful in provisioning major cities and will software update all of the sites they can of course but they will have nothing like 90% coverage with HSDPA in the UK for years. Those lucky networks who rolled out later will be able to implement HSDPA across all sites with software upgrading, hense T-Mobile's 100% HSDPA coverage on its UMTS network.

AFAIK 3 dont actually use all of their bandwidth presently for their 3G service. They might in time though but the size of the subscriber base simply does not merit it for now.

The N95 makes most sense with a provider who can offer a single 3G/HSDPA/Wi-Fi package. Who would use 3G where Wi-Fi is available? Wi-Fi is up to 54Mb/s and T-Mobile have 1000's of Hotspots throughout the UK with roaming on BT's Openzones too. For a single Web'N'Walk professional subscription you get the benefits of all the technologies and the fastest available data where it is available. Vodafone also have a deal with BT for Openzone roaming and hopefully that will be made available in a single package when they relaunch their data bundles in March.

[getti]

Any idea on the data bundles and if they will cover PAYG?

[Ben]

I think we're all pretty much crossing our fingers and hoping at the moment.

[gnomex]

The N95 now appears as "coming soon" on page 10 of the Orange "Products & Prices" brochure in their shops.

No details as to pricing or when it will be available but it would appear that it's on its way!

[whatleydude]

FYI - VF have quoted April 12th.

[3GScottishUser]

By which time Vodafone will have hopefully revised their data tariffs and included some WiFi access through their partnership with BT. Having GPRS, 3G, HSDPA and WiFi covers all of the available data delivery methods and for those considering in investing in such a complex device I would have thought that factor would be a very important one regarding network choice.

[getti]

Of course the release date also depends on how Orange the phone becomes. Look at the N91..... it was due for 2 months and then Orange threw a hissy fit because Nokia would not let them have their Orange Media Player on instead of the Nokia 1 so they pulled it from their range.

Then there was the 4 month delay on getting the 6680 out (Guys on What Mobile remember that well ;) )

[stuartturrell]

n95 on orange site as coming soon now.

[Ginz]

Voda say from Monday, now avail on T-Mob and coming soon on Orange.

[stuartturrell]

what are chances of orange allowing me to upgrade about 12 months into my 18 month contract.
Could i threaten to get a deal with t-mobile and get the n95 with them, and just allow my contract to run it time with them and then cancel?

Would like the N95 because of its wifi, but mainly its GPS as i do use that a lot and get a bit fed up carrying the battery draining extra thing around with me.

[Hands0n]

what are chances of orange allowing me to upgrade about 12 months into my 18 month contract.
Could i threaten to get a deal with t-mobile and get the n95 with them, and just allow my contract to run it time with them and then cancel?

Its not good news :(

None of the mobile ops will be interested in upgrading you early on the basis of a end-of-contract cancellation so far away. Some may let you upgrade for a fee, likely to be not far off from the SIM-free price. :eek:

What you could do is exactly what you are suggesting to them - but they won't care, they're getting your money whether you use the service or not! As for the potential loss of future business with you; they'll not care, you'll just be another statistic in their Customer Churn figures. Unless you do a lot of business with them you'll be statistically insignificant to them!

The N95 is a well specified and delightful looking handset - does anyone know if it is a good 'un or is it a repeat of the dire N80. I only ask because Nokia's recent track record of getting out well-functioning S60 handsets is not exactly a good one!

[stuartturrell]

i would like to have my contract renewed at around this time every year, april seems a good time for upgrading, this 18 month contract doesnt help this though.
I will have a look around, but whoever i go for, the n95 is going to be expensive at the moment, will see what vodafone offer, but cant see it being much better than t-mobile.

Are 3 releasing the n95?

[getti]

Yes but we have no dates yet

[Hands0n]

Are 3 releasing the n95?

Are you sure you'd want to do that? The phone is great, the network is great, the CS is unprintable!

[3GScottishUser]

The network of choice for the N95 has to be T-Mobile.

With Web'N'Walk Pro you can use it as a modem for real HSDPA benefits using a laptop or PDA. T-Mobile also give you access to Wi-Fi hotspots and with those offering 54Mbps they make 3G look silly.

T-Mobile has all of their 3G network HSDPA enabled already so no guesswork as to where the improved data rates are.

Add to the above the flexibility of 'Flext', T-Mobile's improved roaming deals, excellent UK based CS and its a no-brainer.

[Ginz]

This is a question I too am asking myself..

I have 1 month remaining on my 18th month Voda contract.. The N95 is out of stock on Voda until Monday in my local store at the earliest. They seem to think they will be able to offer me better than T-Mobile.. I'm kinda holding out for that hope because I've got a bit of bargaining power with my contract due up soon..

What offer do you think I should take that would beat T-Mobile? I saw an N95 in the wild the other day and it looks brilliant.

[Hands0n]

In terms of Data there is no offer that beats T-Mobile. If you are after something that "beats" Flext 35 (in particular) then I think you'll have a bit of a stretch on your hands. I'd like to be wrong on that .... but don't think that I am :)

[stuartturrell]

you can buy a n95 now on orange online.

Looking at the data tariffs out at the moment, i think i wont bother looking at another tariff until early next year, i will then look at a new phone and tariff.

3G signal is limited too, 3 and orange at ok, t-mobile and vodafone are getting closer, with o2 not bothering, waiting till next year i will be able to see what is going on then.

Did i not read somewhere that there will be a 4G phone out later this year, using wifimax or something?

[Hands0n]

The rumour mill about 4G is going scatty. The thing is that 4G is not a technology in its own right. It is more an "umbrella" technology that will encompass everything else (2G, 3G, WiMax, WiFi etc. etc.). The benefit to the user is that they will transit the different "carrier technologies" seamlessly. That is the plan. The execution of this will be immensely complex - charging for use appears to be the biggest hurdle, but it must come so that other future carrier technologies can be placed under the 4G umbrella. But for sure, 4G is not the rumoured replacement or follow-on technology for 3G.

3G will see many developments of its own - we are going through HSDPA right now. HSUPA (the Uplink) is on its way. Increased speeds in HSDPA and HSUPA will come, as will [probably] symmetric speeds as the technology improves.

I wouldn't hold out for 4G - there is too much else going on :)

[stuartturrell]

I was looking at HSDPA, but with three and orange the only networks with 3g coverage around here, not sure there is much point going down that route for now, as i know nothing about orange's plan for HSDPA, but with 3, i am still a little unsure how they manage their walled garden and their overseas customer service :(

[stuartturrell]

ah well the misses phone is buggered, and she wants rid of her 2 3 and o2 payg sims cards to get one orange (everyone in family is pretty much on orange - good signal here), so i have upgraded my phone to n95 so she gets my n80 for her pay as you go.

So far, had the N95 for 3 days, and you can tell there is a new CPU in the bugger, so much faster than the N80!, which was the same speed cpu as the 6680 and 6630 i believe.

Didnt realise the N80 was slow until i used the N95!

[3g-g]

... as i know nothing about orange's plan for HSDPA...

This is for change soon, but I believe it'll be the major cities at first for roll out, HSDPA really only makes a differnce for those that are moving data about via laptops etc, it won't make a huge difference to browsing on a handset for example.