[Hands0n]

I took a little drive between two points about 7 miles apart - from the countryside, through the town and back out into the countryside. The route passed isolated houses, hamlets and regular town centre roads. Accompanying me was my PDA running WiFiFoFum - a WiFi scanner. The attached Log makes for interesting reading (apologies for the format, it is a straight rip of the file, I didn't have time to edit it pretty).

I was astonishing to not only find so much WiFi but, more significantly, so much unprotected WiFi. Even those from BT and Sky were left wide open. Is this sensible installation work from the so-called professionals. Should there not be minimum standards of install for the - possibly technologically illiterate - customer?

As things stand, there is no shortage of wide open Internet access on the go. So why pay for it?

NB: The scanner I used does not disciminate between the types of encryption, it assumes they are all WEP even if they are WPA etc. Significant are the "None"!




Encr...Type................SSID
---------------------------
WEP - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2500V-95 -
WEP - Infrastructure - 2WIRE362 -
None - Infrastructure - RepDN3 -
None - Infrastructure - PAULS NETWORK -
WEP - Infrastructure - linksys -
None - Infrastructure - linksys -
None - Infrastructure - SKY04816 -
None - Infrastructure - Leeming -
None - Infrastructure - reepa -
None - Infrastructure - WLAN -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-ECAD -
None - Infrastructure - belkin54g -
None - Infrastructure - belkin wireless -
None - Infrastructure - SKY81344 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-3835 -
WEP - Infrastructure - polliefurby -
None - Infrastructure - JackNetwork -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-ECAB -
None - Infrastructure - NETGEARMM -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-F344 -
None - Infrastructure - SKY78103 -
None - Infrastructure - phoenix1 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-
None - Infrastructure - WANADOO-16F4 -
WEP - Infrastructure - monkeyboy -
None - Infrastructure - SKY17049 -
None - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - belkin54g -
None - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2091-68 -
None - Infrastructure - G604T_WIRELESS -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-4970 -
None - Infrastructure - Ayoola -
None - Infrastructure - SKY23641 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-4747 -
None - Infrastructure - HERRINGTON -
None - Infrastructure - SKY17970 -
None - Infrastructure - SKY91017 -
None - Infrastructure - NETWORK WLAN -
None - Infrastructure - SKY58783 -
None - Infrastructure - home wireless -
WEP - Infrastructure - DIONEX -
None - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2091-84 -
None - Infrastructure - belkin54g -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-FEDE -
WEP - Infrastructure - DanNet -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-A7E5 -
WEP - Infrastructure - eyers176d -
None - Infrastructure - SKY58353 -
None - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2100-9C -
None - Infrastructure - SKY81570 -
WEP - Infrastructure - linksys_SES_19654 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-DF0C -
None - Infrastructure - Web Lan -
None - Infrastructure - abc123 -
None - Infrastructure - TheRectory -
None - Infrastructure - SKY02008 -
None - Infrastructure - SKY69802 -
WEP - Infrastructure - SKY26245 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-02EF -
WEP - Infrastructure - deltanet -
None - Infrastructure - SKY26004 -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-6FE3 -
None - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - KeepOut -
None - Infrastructure - ian -
None - Infrastructure - default -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-634D -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-BAF7 -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-0D0D -
None - Infrastructure - SKY64686 -
None - Infrastructure - WANADOO-C128 -
WEP - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - Livebox-C858 -
None - Infrastructure - belkin54g -
WEP - Infrastructure - Matrix -
None - Infrastructure - 000D0BBCE754 -
None - Infrastructure - SKY92632 -
WEP - Infrastructure - dfsl -
None - Infrastructure - SpeedTouchF59758 -
WEP - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - Livebox-9E88 -
None - Infrastructure - WANADOO-B66C -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2091-D8 -
WEP - Infrastructure - HOME -
None - Infrastructure - default -
WEP - Infrastructure - dellsnetwork -
None - Infrastructure - linksys -
None - Infrastructure - BAKICI -
None - Infrastructure - ginger -
None - Infrastructure - WANADOO-131D -
None - Infrastructure - Livebox-7DB0 -
None - Infrastructure - SATTAWAY -
None - Infrastructure - mclavy -
None - Infrastructure - Belkin Pre-N_ADSL -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTVOYAGER2091-36 -
None - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - Belkin54g -
WEP - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-C147 -
WEP - Infrastructure - SKY99515 -
None - Infrastructure - linksys -
WEP - Infrastructure - NETGEAR -
None - Infrastructure - BTHomeHub-5719
None - Infrastructure - CYPRUS -

[Ben]

"So why pay for it?" - indeed, though for anyone who doesn't know I just want to point out that it's illegal.

Totally shocking that there are so many wide-open WLANs about. Almost all also have their default SSID values, some of which even provide, what looks to be, model identification which confounds the security risk further.

It's not that everyone is completely unaware either. Some people just can't be bothered with it. Perhaps if every WAP shipped with security enabled and a note in the box containing the random key/password so it could be used right out-the-box then things would be different - I certainly think so.

Moronic vendors.

[miffed]

TBH I kind of like the idea of this "sharing" lark

In an Ideal world , we would all pay for our own broadband at home / work - but leave it unsecured , so anyone in there car , or passing by / staying for a few days in a neighbours house could "borrow" a bit when they needed it :)

Obviously there are downsides to this ( i.e. neighbours not buying their own connection and using yours exclusively - security of your own files etc )

When I first got my iMac , I (accidently) used my neighbours network for a week ,
The way I see it - if you are on a uncapped ( or reasonably limeted , say 40GB ? ) tarriff , and all your individual computers are secure in themselves , then the is not a hell of a lot that can go wrong is there ? - From what I gather , ISP's are more likely to just warn you rather than charge you if you go over anyway ?

Now obviously there is a huge difference between a couple of passers by borrowing a bit of bandwidth and someone permanantly leeching your connection - and there is also a problem if you live in an area where you'll get several thousand passers by leeching -

But for the majority - if your internet speed is unnafected , and you are not charged any more , plus you have made your computers secure - then are there any REAL potential potential problems ?


"So why pay for it?" - indeed, though for anyone who doesn't know I just want to point out that it's illegal.



Ahhh , I see ! :o


None - Infrastructure - KeepOut -


^^^ LOL at this one

[Ben]

LoL, yes, I think Hands0n should return to KeepOut for some undercover research ;)

Of course, I can't advise him to connect to the network, enter any available network shares and place a text file reading "respectfully, no!"

[Hands0n]

Miffed raises good points, but ....................

The question is whether or not the other computers on the WLAN are secure, which as we all know - direct out of the box MS OSes are not! Default Adminsitrator passwords, MS Messenger active by default, PnP active by default, Guest account wide open - and of course, lets not forget all of those well known MS exploits?

Wide open WAPs are inherently dangerous - there are a number of Virus/Trojans that attack all the members of a LAN/WLAN by navigating the M$ Workgroup and the LAN/WLAN IP range and using well known exploits to deposit their payloads.

No, I do believe that the risks of a wide open WLAN outweigh any possible social "benefits".

I am going to link my WiFoFum to my BT GPS :D which will give a more accurate location of the detected WAPs.

It is simple readily available tools like this that make the risks of ingress to a WLAN so very great and real. Not scary, but to be sure the wise advice (I believe) is to ensure that security is turned on and kept that way.

Now if you'lll forgive me, I've some more "detecting" to do :) LOL

[3g-g]

I think it's quite obvious, WRT the point of the technically illiterate, then when you find a network that's still named after the hardware, the user that it belongs to obviously has no clue as to how to set up their system.

My previous AP couldn't be got in to (excuse my terrible grammar) by myself via the supposed web browser, and I knew this, I also knew that about 6 other people in the street had unencrypted WiFi, so if I could find it, they could find me! So, without fail the AP would be swiftly removed from the mains when not in use. Needless to say when my new Linksys jobby turned up it was a piece of cake to secure and is now proudly left on for people to find and have their hopes dashed as they need the key! ;)

[Ben]

One thing I just remembered:

I read about a company some time ago that was supplying broadband to customers with special WiFi kit. Either the broadband was cheap, or free, but the company would then also sell WiFi access to others. The idea was that everyone having their broadband and WiFi kit in their homes could double up as a massive mesh WLAN that passers-by could pay to use. A very neat idea indeed, if implemented properly and securely.

[timothythetim]

Our sky wireless router came set up secure with a wee card with the network key on it just as Ben suggested.
It also has the key on a sticker on the actauly router itself. Maybe not the best idea, but I suppose for home use it's ok.

[Ben]

Wow timothythetim, that's very cool... or at least up to the bit about having the key stuck to the router itself ;)

Is the default encryption WEP, do you know? I'd imagine it would be as vendors will want maximum compatibility rather than maximum security. I'm lucky in that I've been able to get rid of all my WEP kit now (and update the firmware of the odd 802.11b Centrino laptop to support WPA) but for home use I guess WEP is fine. Even if it is laughably easy to crack to somebody who knows what they're doing.

[Hands0n]

Our sky wireless router came set up secure with a wee card with the network key on it just as Ben suggested.
It also has the key on a sticker on the actauly router itself. Maybe not the best idea, but I suppose for home use it's ok.

You'll notice in the above listing that all but one Sky-provided routers are left wide open. I reckon you had a crack installation team, whereas down here some of these have had a cack installation team :D Shameful.

What your installer did for you was a neat and tidy idea, and I would want that to be the least a "professional" installer would do for a customer.

I don't do this myself but ...... a good idea is to turn off the SSID broadcast once you have your installation up and running. You can always hard-code the installation parameters in each WiFi client so long as you have them listed somewhere. With the SSID off your WLAN is effectively in stealth mode, invisible to all but those who may know your SSID. Security through Obscurity works well in that instance.

[timothythetim]

No one came to install it. The router just arrived in the post from sky and I plugged it in and that was it.
It's WPA I think.

[Hands0n]

No one came to install it. The router just arrived in the post from sky and I plugged it in and that was it.
It's WPA I think.

If you're curious/not sure you can check the status of the WiFi by;
On the taskbar find the Wirelss Connection icon and right click it.
Select "View Available Wireless Networks" and you'll get a list of the networks in your neck of the woods. The list will tell you their SSIDs and also what, if any, encryption is enabled.

If your network is not encrypted it may be an idea to get onto Sky for help in turning it on the box.

To digress slightly - how is Sky's Internet offering? Are you pleased with it in comparison with whichever you had before?

[miffed]

Just switched to sky myself ( well, I have put the order in )

couldn't really justify not giving them a go - They were offering a virtually what I have now for £5 per month, plus a cap of 40gb as opposed to BT's 15GB ( I am currently paying BT £27 for it :mad: ) - BT offered to reduce the price to £21.99 :rolleyes: , but it was far too little too late

May regret it - I am certainly not expecting a "problem free" transition - but all I am seeing is the £22 per month saving

I'll post up my experiences as soon as I've had some :)

[timothythetim]

If you're curious/not sure you can check the status of the WiFi by;
On the taskbar find the Wirelss Connection icon and right click it.
Select "View Available Wireless Networks" and you'll get a list of the networks in your neck of the woods. The list will tell you their SSIDs and also what, if any, encryption is enabled.

If your network is not encrypted it may be an idea to get onto Sky for help in turning it on the box.

To digress slightly - how is Sky's Internet offering? Are you pleased with it in comparison with whichever you had before?
It's deffo WPA.
When sky broadband has been working, it's fantastic. Unlimited downloads at up to 16meg (we get about 10 or so max) for only a tenner a month is just incredibly cheap. We were paying NTL 25 quid for meg, so purely on a value point Sky wins hands down.
The thing with NTL was, though, that it hardly ever broke, and was always a consistently high speed.
Sky seem to be having some teething problems, but it is getting better. For the first few weeks it was unusable because the ADSL connection was dropped so often. Now it's got a bit better, but still not great. We still have NTL though (we will cancel it in a few months once all email adresses have been changed, and sky starts working very well)

[Hands0n]

I look forward to reading your experiences. A friend of mine who is on BT is making the jump to Sky Broadband. He busted his data cap and BT charged him per megabyte, the bill cracked a floortile when it landed! He was not at all happy, especially when he found out the size of the cap in comparison to Sky's 40GB. He'll probably get near the 40GB because he does use the P2P quite a bit - but at least it will take longer to hit the threshold, if at all.

For my part, I do not have the option as I am a Telewest cable customer which places ADSL out of my reach. My fee for their 10MBPS totally uncapped service is £35pcm which is a lot by today's standards, but it is also a lot of service too.

I'm fascinated by the range of "converged" offerings - Sky and Orange have some good deals on the go (3GSU is on the latter so it'd be interesting for your comparitive views). Virgin Mobile (http://www.virginmobile.com/vm/genericContent.do?contentId=vm.with.cable.brochure .shop.sm241) have a £40 "Fourplay" cable offering since the acquisition by ntl:Telewest. But you have to be in a cable area to get it. It does not appear to be open to existing customers - which is a shame as it would save me around £35 a month - although it is not their 10MBPS offering, and numerous T&Cs apply. Based on the ntl:Telewest network the buyer gets a good deal in data terms


All of our broadband services are unlimited, with no restrictions on how much data you can download. We also offer worry-free surfing, with our internet security features, including a firewall and anti-virus software as standard

Full details on the Internet offering here (http://www.telewest.co.uk/html/whytelewest/thefacts.html)


2007 should prove to be an exciting and enticing time for buyers of convergence.

[3g-g]

Just switched to sky myself ( well, I have put the order in )

couldn't really justify not giving them a go - They were offering a virtually what I have now for £5 per month, plus a cap of 40gb as opposed to BT's 15GB ( I am currently paying BT £27 for it :mad: ) - BT offered to reduce the price to £21.99 :rolleyes: , but it was far too little too late

May regret it - I am certainly not expecting a "problem free" transition - but all I am seeing is the £22 per month saving

I'll post up my experiences as soon as I've had some :)

Hmm, i'm weighing up the option of switching to Sky also, purely for the saving and the increase in speed, my exchange being a LLU one. However I did read that if you're moving to a LLU exchange the MAC code process doesn't apply, so, Sky recommend cancelling your current ISP, waiting till the service has completely stopped and then putting the order in with Sky, which means waiting 15 days or so! 15 days without the internet?! Are you mad!?

Had anyone swapped a normal up to 8Mbit ISP type connection for that of a LLU? How did it go? Tell me as I don't want to jump ship if it's going to be a disaster!

[Ben]

Trusted Reviews had an article from one of the writers about their switch to Sky. It wasn't all roses. It might be worth a read before you make up your mind.

[Hands0n]

Just for completeness .... if anyone wants a copy of WiFiFoFum it is available here (http://www.aspecto-software.com/rw/applications/wififofum/) free and gratis under an open licence.

[miffed]

Trusted Reviews had an article from one of the writers about their switch to Sky. It wasn't all roses. It might be worth a read before you make up your mind.

Doesn't surprise me ! here is the story so far

1) Phone in submitted order - was told it would be 5 days for the router and then 15 days before the line was activated

2) 7 days later - no router ! Rang Sky to be told there had been a problem with the original order ...BUT , they had raised a replacement order the previous day (to this call) , and all would be fine , 5 days for the router , 15 days for the activation

3) Got a letter from Sky confirming , and the best part "you don't have to worry about anything - just sit back and let us do all the work" :D

4) again , a week passes , no router - Phoned Sky to be told "yes it will be another 5 days for the router , then your line will be activated in about 15 days from now (starting to think this is a recorded message !! )

....Starting to think this has been a HUGE mistake :rolleyes:

If the next communication with Sky is initiated by me , it will be a cancellation - Hopefully they'll get their finger out before long

[Hands0n]

My friend is also going through something similar .... here's his little tale of woe



.....fer yer forum

Contacted Sky to see about connection.

Here's a couple of lines from their letter.

"Rest assured that if you need delivery and installation then tah's all sorted too. Oh, and we'll shortly get in touch with you to confirm any other details.

Your broadband broadband connect (no thats not me they did put it twice) is provided under sky broadband contract which will be emailed, when your broadband line is activated to your new sky.com address, which is your username shown below followed by sky.com.

It normally takes 10-15 working days for your line to go live, we will write to you to let you know the estimated activation date that we receive back from BT. However, due to the current high demand for sky broadband, when you receive the letter, please allow an aditional 3 working days to go live.

Once your broadband box is installed and we have contacted you to confirm you will be ready to access sky broadband."

Right, now the reality.

I called Sky, got through to the Lothian call centre,

After a lengthy chat about logins and explaining that the letter had the sky.com email login details not the router login config details and finally thinking that she realised that she didn't understand a word of what I was going on about, she put me through to tech support...........great. I then had the pleasure of chatting to the lady in india or wherever they are, let s just say they aint in the UK.

I now started going over the whole thing with her, words like PPP, Chap authentication were the language of the devil and scientists it would seem and we went through about 3 20 minute chats, 1 about sky email logon being sent, then 20 mins about me wanting to configure the router and not needing the login details of the router as I was already in, the third was about the penny finally dropping and her saying that it is sky's policy not to give out the routers user/login details as it comes hard coded into the new router. So despite having the very same router at home, I have to wait for their router.

Here's where I thought logic would apply. The guy in provisions proved me wrong though.

In my view this is how it should go, apply, receive router, I confirm I have router, they confirm my swap date, I plug router in on said date and everybodys happy.

Here's what actually happened.

I apply,

They send the above letter,

They change over from prodigynet to sky on 29th Jan.

They send letter telling me of my go live date on 29th Jan, now with the best will in the world, there's no way its getting to me on 29th is it.

They then send the router out on 30th Jan, yep thats right, 1 day after the go live date. They told me today through the Parcel force tracker that it should be with me today, er that's thursday 1st feb, three days after they switch the line over. Well done guys, sky broadcasting, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory once more.



It staggers me how something quite so simple as an A-to-B order can go so very wrong. Process management is not rocket science, it is a simple matter of paying attention to what you are creating in the first place.

[miffed]

Just in the middle of a similar predicament myself :(

Got a letter this AM (3rd Feb) - telling me that my line would be live on 1st of Feb (two days ago) - and that I should allow 3 days to allow for problems caused by volume of interest in Sky Broadband

Right , so by my calculations .... My line should be "Sky" by tommorow (Sunday )

SO WHERES MY ROUTER THEN ? Trying to get through to sky but just keep getting 5 seconds of engaged tone then cut off !

Does anyone know what is going to happen ? My connection still works (obviously sitll using my BT Details ) I have just run some speed tests - and my connection speed has gone from 2Mbps to about 5.5Mbps - and (oddly ) the line / ip does not show up as BTcentralplus any more - in fact it seems to have no id whatsoever ! when I put my IP into the various trace tools on the net it comes up with no trace
So ..... will I lose all broadband over the next few days ? or will it stay working on BT till Sky take over ?
Anyone got any Ideas ?

[Ben]

Do you have your Sky login details? In theory, if you do get cut off, I can't see any reason why you can't just put your Sky login details into your current equipment. Still, 5.5mbps sounds just dandy as a stopgap :p

[miffed]

^^^^ This is exactly what I was thinking / hoping

Only trouble is , Sky haven't given me any details ! Just spoke to them on the phone and they told me the details would be supplied with the router :( ... which incidently is going to here "in about 5 days " ( the fourth time I have been quoted this timescale )

We have been given two usernames so far , but no password - I am hoping it will be a simple , generic , formality like the BT one was

fingers Crossed !

[Hands0n]

My friend had an almost mirror experience to yours - item by item. He is now live and running, and very happy with the performance and quality.

As he is not in an LLU area he is still delivered by BT (Openreach) ADSL. His local exchange is not due to go LLU for quite some time yet.

Prodigynet disconnected him during last week, around Monday, so he was without broadband. So much for a seamless transfer!

Sky told him that they'd provided their Broadband to him. One bijoux problem, they had not delivered his router. Now anyone in their right and sane mind would anticipate delivery of the Sky router ahead of the actual line changeover. It seems that this is far too complex a concept for Sky Broadband - the line has to go in first and then the router gets delivered. The sense in that? I rest my case for the prosecution!

My friend has availabel Netgear router equipment - as used by Sky - but they flat out refused to give him his network username and password. They said that it was "hardcoded" into the router (Netgear) that they'd supply him. Their CS would not assist him in getting his (Netgear) router up and running, saying that it wouldn't work with their provision! So we must assume that Sky have some special kind of ADSL that noone else in the world has - Yea Right!

Anyway, a few days of chasing Sky as to the whereabouts of the router produced nothing - save for the standard "it'll be there in 5 days". He was getting the hump.

Come Thursday he had the raving hump by the time he'd got home after spending fruitless hours on the phone with Sky about the errant router. Later that evening one of his neighbours dropped the router off. It had been delivered to them as he was out at work, but no card was posted into his door saying that they'd done this.

Within minutes he was up and running and fairly pleased. Especially as he now can use his XBox 360 with MS Live - something that was impossible with Prodigynet (they must be blocking or throttling XBox Live to the point of making it unable to work at all).

He had to adjust the Sky wireless router's parameters for his own WiFi network - the Username is "admin" the Password is "sky" (you may have to capitalise the Username/Password .....)

His words follow


the sky package is up and running and is a lot faster than the prodigy net at this early stage.

Could be a number of things, I suspect the contention ratio at first offing's though.

Luckily my neighbour took the delivery of the router, it would be nice if "Arseholeforce" had left an attempted delivery note.

Wired in the router and they have hard coded it for username and password, they have also taken the top two of three menus out, normally it says Basic setting and router setting with wireless. Now you only have wireless settings, so I changed them to the same as my old router so we are now all up and running.

Give the X-box a quick check and tried to download the updates, Lost P G o War and PGR all came down in seconds, even the multimap for GOW came down in less than a couple of minutes and that is 98Mg, can't see it taking long for the HD to fill up at this rate.

[miffed]

Does anyone know anything about the "Handover" proccess ?

I got my router this AM - And my line went live (supposedly) on the 1st of this month (or within 3 days of this date according to the letter)

...I should mention that I WAS still getting BT Broadband this morning - right up until when I plugged the Sky router in
Everything lights up - if I access the routers "homepage" it says "connected" .... but if I look under status there are various failure messages :(

....I assumed it was simply a case of the line not being ready yet , but when I switched back to the old BT router , I can no longer get my BT Broadband ! (I was able to right up to plugging the sky router in :( )

Is it possible that I "Triggered" the handover proccess by plugging the sky router in ? and that it is still "in proccess" now and will sort itself out ? or does the "Connected" bit on the router homepage mean I SHOULD be running fine now ?

I cant have put the wrong username in as it is hardcoded into the modem

Miffeds verdict ? Don't like sky broadband so far

(posted via e61 as 3G modem :( )

[Hands0n]

I'm not sure about the "handover" - in my friends case they did the line change from Prodigynet to Sky several days before the router arrived! It was, in effect, a programmed period of no service - much to his utter disgust.

I don't think you've necessarily triggered anything - probaby more like circumstantial events occurring as part of the changeover process. I'd anticipate getting the router first (!! well, doh Sky!!) and the line being changed over subsequently. Seemingly your experience so far .....

The next day or so should be the proving ground that all is well or otherwise. I suggest calling Sky provision if you don't have any service during tomorrow (Tuesday) as you really should not be out of service any longer than 24 hours.

I think you'll end up liking Sky broadband - my friend is very happy now it is up and running. He has a better speed than he got from Prodigynet and the actual throughput is noticeably better, also he has zero problems accessing Microsoft's XBox Live, something that he simply could not do via Prodigynet (timeouts and connection failures).

Changing ADSL providers is a fraught business -I've not seen one go through straightforwardly yet!

[miffed]

Ah well , all connected :)

Rang sky this morning but battery went on the phone (pesky s750 ! ) halfway through the conversation - had to go to work , so I left it there , got back at about 11 , and lo and behold , it was working !
had a worrying few minutes though it seemed to work under Windows , but not OS X :(
I was on the verge of ringing Sky .... When I suddenly remembered I had used static IP's on the Macs , which were now not relevant to the new router :o :o

so now it all works - and what "lightening" speed am I running ( considering the connection speed on the router suggests 7.6Mbps ? ......

........... 346 kbps :mad: :mad:

Hope this is going to sort itself out soon :(

[Ben]

Assuming it's MaxDSL it'll take a few days to a couple of weeks for the line speed to settle at a stable rate, during which time your access speed could fluctuate from very fast to virtually nothing.

[miffed]

Assuming it's MaxDSL it'll take a few days to a couple of weeks for the line speed to settle at a stable rate, during which time your access speed could fluctuate from very fast to virtually nothing.

... And that is exactly what is happening ! Speed test results range from about 100kbps to 7mbps ! .

- I must admit it is a bit of a releif to hear it is supposed to do that

[Hands0n]

Imagine an automobile built to such a specification :eek: