[Hands0n]

I post this as a warning about a Mobile Phone reseller called Palm Communications in Neath, Wales. They are [allegedly] actively mis-selling 3 UK contracts and one of my in-laws is a victim of their practises.

He was originally cold-called and offered an "upgrade" on the 3 network. Palm Communications were very persistent, calling three times, each time more pressured. At the last call they had all of his bank details to hand. Reluctantly, but assured that it was an upgrade he accepted their offer. A day later the handset arrived with new SIM - he was told that his original number would be carried across.

His mistake, he allowed almost a month to go by before calling 3 CS to find out what was happening with his number port. The next bit is entirely predictable .... 3's CS advised him that he had two contracts running. They were not at all interested in cancelling either one of the contracts, insisting that he had to let them run full term.

He has had a merry dance with Palm Communications who are as slippery as the proverbial. They will not cancel his contract, suggesting he keeps paying through the 12 months and take the periodic cash-backs. But of course, this causes a personal cashflow problem for him!

Just to rub salt into the wound, Palm Communications sent him yet another handset and contract (that makes for a total of two from them!), completely unsolicited. Now 3 have said that they will only cancel the 3rd contract if he gets a cancellation number from the reseller. Predictably, the reseller is dragging their heels giving him this information, and once the 14 days are up he'll be stuck with three contracts with 3. The anticipation must be that Palm Communications Ltd will send yet more handsets out to him in the future!

3's CS have [finally] said that they would investigate the reseller for mis-selling their brand. But this is by no means going to solve his problem if there is any closing of ranks at that end.

So, having listened to his problems I have suggested that he follows up his calls with 3's CS in Mumbai with an eMail appeal for help to 3's executive offices. Certainly, if the exec office do not intervene he'll in all likelihood be saddled with a second contract/handset that he does not want or need.

What an utter shambles. I make it policy never to deal with anyone but the networks directly, or through their own retail stores. You don't get the cashback deals and other fancy bits, but at least you are dealing with reputable organisations, and not tiny bucket-shops tucked away in the corner of some backwater.

NB: Palm Communications have a 3-year property rental deal costing them £7,500 per year - so they're not exactly some huge conglomerate high street retailer.


Neath
Acting on behalf of Barclays Bank plc, Herbert R Thomas have let 10 Queen Street, Neath to Palm Communications Ltd. The premises comprise 241 sq m (2,595 sq ft) and are let on fri terms for three years at £7,500 pa.

Source: http://www.propnews.co.uk/editorial/wales/walesoffs21006.html

[Frasman77]

If the re-sellers were acting outwith the scope of their authority as agents for 3 then he may have some recourse against them. Whether or not 3 could actually enforce the contract in these circumstances might also be open to doubt given that he may be able to argue he was induced into entering into a contract as a result of what might have been a fraudulent misrepresentation.

Whether it's worth going to the trouble of taking legal advice on it probably depends on the amount the contract is actually going to cost him over 12 months, though.

[3g-g]

If the re-sellers were acting outwith the scope of their authority as agents for 3 then he may have some recourse against them. Whether or not 3 could actually enforce the contract in these circumstances might also be open to doubt given that he may be able to argue he was induced into entering into a contract as a result of what might have been a fraudulent misrepresentation.

Whether it's worth going to the trouble of taking legal advice on it probably depends on the amount the contract is actually going to cost him over 12 months, though.

Can we give Frasman77 our resident legal eagle customised badge!? :D

[Hands0n]

If the re-sellers were acting outwith the scope of their authority as agents for 3 then he may have some recourse against them. Whether or not 3 could actually enforce the contract in these circumstances might also be open to doubt given that he may be able to argue he was induced into entering into a contract as a result of what might have been a fraudulent misrepresentation.

Whether it's worth going to the trouble of taking legal advice on it probably depends on the amount the contract is actually going to cost him over 12 months, though.

Thanks for the advice. That is the angle that he is going for at the moment, misselling. 3's CS were not entirely understanding until he finally and with much insistence got to speak with one of their supervisors. But it all depends on whether or not the supervisor actually kicks anything into motion. Hence my advice to him to approach the executive office and ask for their assistance in the matter.

From all that he said, and I have really only summarised above, Palm Communications Ltd have done the dirty on him.

I'll publish the conclusion to this sorry tale when it happens.

[Hands0n]

My in-law has finally managed to get a resolution to the problems of Palm Communications mis-selling not one but two contracts to him. It did, however, take the weight of 3's UK Customer Services in Glasgow to solve the problem. The Mumbai outfit was (a) not interested and (b) totally ineffective - no change there then, I fail to see their reason for existence when they are quite so singularly useless in every possible way.

This lad followed the conventional advice and emailed [email protected], he also emailed [email protected]. There had been a series of emails previously all of which had been non-effective. The laugh is that he'd entered the bob.fuller addy wrong ([email protected]) which bounced, but one has to wonder if the CS folk had spotted that significant name!

Within 20 minutes of the last email the Glasgow CS called him to discuss the issues. They acknowledged the email trail and the issues that had occured. The CS rep was able to cancel the two additional contracts immediately while he was on the phone to them. He had to pay for the calls made on one of the contracts (the one that was purportedly his "upgrade"). That is, I suppose, fair enough although I'd have thought that a Goodwill gesture would have been to write the calls off given the sheer hassle this lad has been through.

The end result is that he is now free of these two mis-sold (fraudulently-sold more like) contracts. He is feeling very sore and disillusioned against Palm Communications in particular and 3 in general - mostly due to the debacle at the hands of 3's Mumbai call centre.

In true British style he is philosophical about the entire episode. He is very unlikely to renew with 3 when the time comes. As he says, "If they can't and won't help me when I'm in trouble through no fault of my own then what good are they to me?".

I make him right. Another Customer lost Three. Are you listening? No, I didn't think so.

[waterglow]

I have actually worked for Palm Communications recently, and sympathize with your problems, but I would be lying if I said I was surrpised. They have a terrible reputation and customer services, run by, no less than at least 3-4 people, with no clear indication of management and position. I have issues with them over pay, they owned me money for hours and commission I worked and earned there, which they refuse to pay, surprise surprise.

I am actually taking action against them now, with the Inland Revenue Service and various other regulatory agencies. This company is so shoddy and dodgy I'm sure they can find something.

The main reason I left them was over the pay issues and their customer services. Since your issue has been resolved, I doubt you have any further interest in the company. However if you or your In Laws require any information on the comapny should further problems arise i.e Who you can REALLY ask to talk to there and hold responsible, simply PM me. I will be spending a lot of time making sure Palm get what they deserve.

[Hands0n]

Hi waterglow, and welcome to Talk3G. I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with them as an ex-employee and wish you well in your pursuit. Do please keep us informed as much as you are able to without prejudicing your own position.

The troubles of my relative are now resolved by 3 which was a pleasant surprise in itself.

A cautionary tale indeed to anyone contemplating dealing with a dealership that is not part of the mobile delivery service itself. There have been, and no doubt will continue to be, shoddy dealers who will exploit any new market for their own gains and to hell with the Customer and [in your case at least] its own Staff! Such firms deserve all the backlash that they get.


Edit: In Google a search for "Palm Communications" (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial_s&hs=6o5&q=%22palm+communications%22&btnG=Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB) throws up this thread in 5th place. Anyone doing a search for information about them will inevitably be offered this thread and will be able to make up their own minds as to whether or not to do business with them.

[feedingducks]

Hi there,

I’m also having problems with Palm Communications. I set up a contract with them in September after they cold-called me, based on the promise that I’d receive the first 12 months of my contract for free, via redemption when I send them my bills.

I’ve tried to contact them, but all the contact details they gave out are useless. Their phone number doesn’t work, their fax number doesn’t work, and their email address doesn’t work. I’m beginning to wonder whether they will ever give me cashback, or whether they have taken whatever commission they get from Three, and never intend to give anyone any cashback ever.

Has anyone else had this same problem? Has anyone got any working method of contacting Palm Communications? If so, please share it! I’ve called Three for advice, and they have been completely unhelpful.

[Hands0n]

Hello feedingducks - welcome to Talk3G and I'm sorry that you are yet another one who has been caught out by this company.

The degree of success or otherwise that you will achieve seems to be entirely dependent upon whether you talk with 3's Mumbai (Indian) Call Centre or if you actually manage to speak with someone at 3's UK Executive Office. The Mumbai Call Centre will be entirely useless to you as they are not empowered to make any kind of decision in this respect, and will be unwilling/unable to forward your plight to the UK.

I suggest you follow the "conventional advice" that often appears in these forums and indeed is offered earlier in this thread - it would be very interesting to hear back from you as to whether you succeeded or not.



This lad followed the conventional advice and emailed [email protected], he also emailed [email protected]. There had been a series of emails previously all of which had been non-effective. The laugh is that he'd entered the bob.fuller addy wrong ([email protected]) which bounced, but one has to wonder if the CS folk had spotted that significant name!

Within 20 minutes of the last email the Glasgow CS called him to discuss the issues. They acknowledged the email trail and the issues that had occured. The CS rep was able to cancel the two additional contracts immediately while he was on the phone to them. He had to pay for the calls made on one of the contracts (the one that was purportedly his "upgrade"). That is, I suppose, fair enough although I'd have thought that a Goodwill gesture would have been to write the calls off given the sheer hassle this lad has been through.




I would also suggest that you contact the Trading Standards office in the area where Palm Communications is trading. They will no doubt already know of this shoddy company. You should probably offer them the content of this thread for their review also. They may be able to do something about Palm, if they are still in business which, from your comments, seems unlikely!

Please let us know how you get on.

[lgcoll]

Hi there,

I’m also having problems with Palm Communications. I set up a contract with them in September after they cold-called me, based on the promise that I’d receive the first 12 months of my contract for free, via redemption when I send them my bills.

I’ve tried to contact them, but all the contact details they gave out are useless. Their phone number doesn’t work, their fax number doesn’t work, and their email address doesn’t work. I’m beginning to wonder whether they will ever give me cashback, or whether they have taken whatever commission they get from Three, and never intend to give anyone any cashback ever.

Has anyone else had this same problem? Has anyone got any working method of contacting Palm Communications? If so, please share it! I’ve called Three for advice, and they have been completely unhelpful.


Hi I have also had the exact same problem as you! I sent off for my cashback after my first 3 months and it returned to me saying that the adressie had moved! So I have tried phoning them today and the operator says "number not recognised."
There must be something we can do as we were promised this in our contracts, it was the only reason i really signed up for it! There breaking the law aren't they?
Does anyone know if 3 can sort out the cashbacks or these problems that palm are creating? Im usually so careful with things like this but the guy on the phone (he called himself Barry and was welsh) sold it to me because it was such a good deal!
They have my bank details too, can they access my account. I mean the 3 contract is official because i recieve bills from them but whos to know if these dodgey characters at Palm Com cant get into our bank accounts.

Please message back if anyone has any info for me.

Loz.

[shello1234]

i know this company very very well and if you need info be free to ask because i will tell all about the fantastic directors who con everyone ... if only you know who they really are ????

[Hands0n]

Last accounts filed June 2005 http://www.ukdata.com/creditreports/viewCompanyDetails.do?companyId=05151533

They're either bust or trading illegally. It would be nice to hear that their Directors are now residents in of one of HMP. I truly cannot stand people like this, they don't deserve the oxygen they breathe.

[feedingducks]

When I called three they told me that they had nothing to do with it, because it was a deal between me and Palm, and not them. So if Palm refuse cashback, three will refuse to do anything about it. i.e. we are screwed and three don't care.

HOWEVER
three still claim that Palm are an "active dealer" with them! How can they be in business with a company who is completely screwing everyone over? It's totally unacceptable.

What annoys me so much is that three told me they would 'escalate' my problem and someone would get back to me. Heard nothing so far. Will email the Bob guy as recommended in this thread. I think we all should, those of us having problems with Palm.

Let's keep sharing info until we get somewhere.

[feedingducks]

Email I sent to "bob" at Three. If anyone else is having problems, I suggest we all email him and try to sort out our problems with Palm en masse.

...

I am very angry about my current problems with Palm Communications, through whom I set up a contract with you on the promise of cashback, which I have yet to receive.

Palm communications have been entirely uncontactable (email, phone, fax lines all seem to be fake or disconnected) and I have received no cashback.

I called three a long time ago about this, at your Mumbai call center and I was told my issue would be "escalated" and I would hear back from someone within a month, which I have not.

At the time I was told that three was still and "active dealer" with Palm Communications. How can you be in business with a company which appears to be ripping off every person it sets up a contract with, and how can you be doing nothing about any of the complaints that I know people have made about Palm? I am not the only person in this position, and I can direct you towards some other people who are having the same problems. It is ridiculous that three has been in business with and continued to accept new contracts set up through Palm, after receiving complaints from customers detailing how Palm are completely beyond contact and giving out fake contact information.

Please advise me on a way I can proceed. Obviously I currently feel completely screwed over, although I appreciate that this is the fault of Palm and not yourself.

...

[Hands0n]

I also think that you should bring this matter to the attention of the local Trading Standards Office that covers the Neath area. They may well already have a case file open on Palm Communications. Given the comments on here from others I do not believe that you are isolated instances.

Either the problem is systemic within Palm Communications or you and the others have somehow fallen through into a bit of a black hole with their systems. In any case, Palm Communications would appear to be in breach of contract with you, and quite possibly in conflict with their statutory obligations in law given their T&Cs. There are legal remedies which you should be able to avail yourself of - but you must make sure that Palm Communications are on the Tradings Standards radar.

You can contact Neath Port Talbot Trading Standards on Tel: 01639 763333 (source http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/monmouthshire/linksc.htm ) - they do not appear to have an eMail address so a phone call is in order.

Please do keep us posted on this thread.

[feedingducks]

Further update.

After emailing the three customer services (bob email), I was emailed back and contacted by phone a few days later. I spoke to a nice girl called Lisa at Three who explained that they were starting to get numerous complaints about Palm Communications, who are now no longer trading with Three. (She was unsure whether they have gone out of business or not.)

She advised me to get in touch with trading standards as I was advised above, and that's what I'm going to do later today.

She said that she couldn't do anything about the cashback I was offered, but there were two options available to me.
1) cancel the contract, paying the cancellation fee of all my remaining months line rental (ridiculous- this isn't canceling at all and would cost me over £500!)
2) pay a £25 one off fee to change my price plan, i.e. drop down to the £35 per month deal or the £25 per month deal. (no lower options are available.) I reckon I'm going to drop down to £25- it's still far more than I was expecting to pay, but it's better than being stuck with a £45 per month deal, as there is still a year left to go on my contract.

Argh!

Aside from that, trading standards is the next option.

I'll keep you posted. I imagine a lot more people will be finding this thread as they realise they're not getting any cashback on the contracts they set up with Palm.

[Ben]

Oh my god?! Three actually admitted that they'd received numerous complaints about Palm Communications but then went on to refuse complete and free termination of your contract? That's out of order if you ask me, I'd get back on to Lisa!

[Hands0n]

Given your latest findings I do feel that you should now approach this with a multi-Agency point of view.

1) Trading Standards - Palm Communications are clearly in breach of a number of statutory laws and certainly their contracted agreement with you. They are the Retailer of the 3 service and therefore a liable.

2) Department of Trade and Industry - I do think that the DTI could intervene and force Palm Communications into liquidation. Not a good option to begin with as you'll then become a creditor of Palm Comms and only get a small bit of recompence. But you will have been instrumental in driving this seedy business out of existence.

3) OFCOM - I do find it staggering that 3 are offloading your problem entirely and I wonder if OFCOM would, if not intervene, offer advice on what remedy they could achieve for you with 3 itself. It is unacceptable for 3 to merely shrug shoulders and say "now't to do with us guv". They have to do better than this, much better.

Having had a word with Neath Trading Standards you might consider a small claims action against Palm Communications. If they don't settle, go back and instigate Baliff procedings - these chaps will turn up at the owner's house to reclaim goods to the value of whatever the court decides Palm owes you. This method you can use to really put the boot into the offending twerp who runs Palm Communictions, even if he takes it into liquidation!

[feedingducks]

I tried the Neath Trading Standards number above, and they redirected me to a big central London call system where I was in a queue- I was short of time so had to hang up, I'll try again tomorrow.

The big problem with all of these suggestions is that I have nothing on paper from Palm which states the terms on which they sold me the contract. I imagine none of the people they sold to over the phone have anything on paper. (All I have is a rubbish photocopied sheet which says nothing about the contract at all.)

Re Three admitting they had complaints but saying they can do nothing about it- this is based on the fact that my contract for cashback was with Palm, not Three. My main complaint was that I had contacted Three ages ago, and they still seemed to be trading with Palm despite complaints. But as call centers take so long to filter any information anywhere, there's no way to prove that Three knew anything about the problems with Palm while they were still trading with them.

The lady I spoke to said that Three were trying to get rid of all these 'third party' traders because they make Three look bad and there is always one which is a con. This is all true, but it makes me wonder why trade with them in the first place?

It does seem that, given the specific circumstances, Three would be able to cancel the scammy contract, but the lady I spoke to said her hands were tied. At the end of the day, what else can you say? I imagine pretty soon there will be loads of people in the same position as me, once they find that Palm have effectively disappeared.

I'll get on to trading standards and follow up the other avenues suggested (thanks for this) and I'll keep you posted, but ultimately, with nothing on paper I don't know how far I'm going to get. There is always the option of small claims court, (if they don't show up, you win apparently), but then if the company no longer exists I've no idea what happens. I'll pursue this all tomorrow.

Is there anyone currently reading this thread who's in the same boat as me, on the same cashback offer from Palm that never materialized?

Also, I'd be interested to know what the people who used to work for Palm who posted earlier in the thread think of this at this stage? Does anyone have any contact info for Palm which might actually work?

[Hands0n]

I'll get on to trading standards and follow up the other avenues suggested (thanks for this) and I'll keep you posted, but ultimately, with nothing on paper I don't know how far I'm going to get. There is always the option of small claims court, (if they don't show up, you win apparently), but then if the company no longer exists I've no idea what happens. I'll pursue this all tomorrow.


I believe that the owner of the company is liable even after the company liquidates. If there is a successful action against the company then the baliffs can seek reparation from the company director/s and company secretary. Their only protection would seem to be to declare bankruptcy, but that would prevent them holding a company again for some time.

There is such thing as a "Contract in Tort (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tort)" where the contractual terms are implied in the sale. That is as binding as a printed paper contract. Further article on Contract & Tort here (http://www.city.londonmet.ac.uk/~shlane/) - specifically here (http://www.city.londonmet.ac.uk/~shlane/TortIntro.htm)

It is worth getting a gleaning of these things before going into action - at least you can ask the right questions when speaking to anyone about your legal redress against Palm Communications.

It is always an agonising process when a company swindles its customers - these are always the losers in the game which is why the disreputable people launch such companies in the first place. To earn a quick buck from the punter and then disappear in a cloud of obscurity. They do cover thei tracks quite well, but with persistence they can be identified and prosecuted. A successful civil action against the individual directors and owners is a great way of screwing up their credit standings for a very long time indeed and, who knows, there may well be action that the law would like to take against such a company as Palm Communications.

[feedingducks]

Hi,

Not sure if anyone is interested in this seeing as it's been dragging on for so long. As far as updates go, trading standards say there's nothing they can do without knowing how to contact Palm Communications. I also can't file a small claim unless I know a name or someone to attach to the company. I have their last registered address: PALM COMMUNICATIONS LTD, 10 QUEEN STREET, NEATH, SA1 1DY, but no names. The insolvency register seems to think they haven't filed for insolvency, but I'm going to call and confirm this on monday. This means they're probably still trading somewhere.

So this is a plea! A few people in this thread said they knew people who worked there or were claiming against Palm. Could you please give me any contact information for them, or just a name of someone who runs it?

As mentioned above, their phone number, contact email, etc, all don't work.

If we can get some contact info, it means that anyone who has been screwed over by Palm can start claiming back their money!

Thanks,
Heather

[Hands0n]

You could always try a PM to Waterglow (see earlier posting in this thread) who said that he/she worked for Palm a while back. That may get you a name that you need for your legal action.

What about Companies House - the formal registration for the firm must have a named Director, Proprieter or Company Secretary - at least one of these is a legal requirement. You may have to pay Companies House for the extended information.

I found a phone number via Google - 01792-795055 but appears not to be live. Their advertised website is also off-line.

Looking here --> https://www.ukdata.com/numbers/05151533.html you can see that they last filed accounts on 30/06/2005 and so are likely to have gone into insolvency since then to now. But you may, for the £18 fee, be able to get the name and contact information of the individual you are after. If Palm Communications are insolvent then it will be the individual responsible (as above) who you may want to target for legal action. But you do need to seek legal advice from a lawyer experienced in such recovery matters - I suspect that Trading Standards route is exhausted.

Looking at the documents and status of Palm on ukdata.com I do not think the omens are at all good.

Please do let us all know how you get on though. And hopefully one of the previous correspondents on this thread will be able to give further info.

[feedingducks]

I have PM'ed everyone on the thread who said they had contact info, both a while ago and again today, but no luck as of yet- will have to see. HandsOn, might your in-laws have any contact info I could possibly borrow, from when they had their problems with Palm?

I tried Companies House this morning, but they're doing maintenance work on the site so I can't get any info til Monday, but will definitely do so then.

Will keep you posted if I get anywhere- or indeed if I don't!

Thanks,
Heather

[Hands0n]

@feedingducks - Its not good news from me, I'm afraid. My in-law at the time of his troubles could only deal with whomever answered the phone on their main number. But that is now giving a message from BT saying that it is no longer a valid number. He did not get any individual names like MD or Company Sec. In the end, it was 3 that resolved his issue and he has had nothing to do with Palm Communications since.