[3GScottishUser]

Dial-A-Phone no longer offers 3 phones or services on its website.

The company removed all Vodafone offers last year after terms could not be agreed.

Dial-A-Phone now offers only 02, Orange and T-Mobile phones and contract services.

They offer Vodafone, 02, Virgin, T-Mobile and Orange PAYG phones currently.

www.dialaphone.co.uk

[Ben]

Mhm I think Dialaphone are cutting off their nose despite their face again. With Carphone in particular picking up pace all the time there's really no room for a player with such limited choice. Surely it'd be better to offer connections to all networks and just price the deals accordingly?

[Hands0n]

Yes, I also think that a visitor to a mobile seller's website observing a limited number of network offerings is likely to go elsewhere. There are only really five main network providers - the MVNOs are not widely supported by independent dealers, it seems.

It "looks like" Dialaphone are in descent, and due to go into liquidation. It may not be true in fact, but it certainly "looks" like it when the company starts thinning down its service offerings. And in business, appearances are significant.

[3GScottishUser]

I suspect this has a lot to do with commissions and clawbacks and perhaps the vastly improved offerings from t-Mobile and Orange has made 3's product a much more difficult buying propositon now.

Add to the above the 'Direct' deals 3 UK are now offering on their own website and one can understand why dealers may feel aggrieved as they cant compete.

The loss of Dial-A-Phone must be a huge blow for 3 UK as it was one of their main distribution channels. Vodafone could turn their back on DAP easily with their extensive High Street presence but 3 will see numbers drop substantially as DAP's mail order business is the largest in the UK.

Has anyone noticed that 3 deals are pretty scarce now. Just one on CPW's home page, none on either e2save, The Link or Phones4U's home pages either. With just the Nokia 6280, the LU880/890 and Moto V3x at the forefront of their offers , 3's current range looks pretty tired and limited. All the excitment in terms of new products seems elsewhere now with Vodafone's new Nokia exclusives, E Series business phones, N80's and N91's, Samsung Z510, 540 and 400's etc etc... Many of those and others are on 02 and Orange too. Definately changed days now.... 3G has come a long way since 2003 and it looks like the pioneer that introduced the technology first is now being left behind in the race to put a decent attractive range of handsets and interesting content on offer to customers.

[@NickyColman]

I wouldnt rule Three out quite yet.. look at -T-Mobile, for example, who have managed to single handedly turn the market on its head! Its entirely possible that Three could match -T-Mobiles success with Web & Walk and Flext buy offering a similar products and tarriffs.

I dont think Dial-A-Phone dropping Three has any reflection on Three's current state.

[Ben]

I think Three's dependency on DAP is far from what it used to be. It's unquestionable that DAP provided Three with significant volume once upon a time, but times have changed since then. I think this is a sign of the 'new' five player market beginning to mature a little, and Three being less dependent on third parties now they have their own online store and growing number of retail stores.

As for the lack of Three deals being boasted right now, I think it's fair to say that the other networks wern't going to give Three free rule of the highstreet indefinitely.

[3GScottishUser]

T-Mobile have always been a force in the UK both as a strong PAYG network provider and the leading MVNO host. For a long time many people underestimated just how many Uk customers used their network!! The parent company committed £1.5 billion investment on its UK operation last year and that has led to Flext etc and a rapid push to gain market share in their own right.

3 have spent billions in the Uk already and HWL appear too have put the brakes on for now. Hardly surprising as for all the big spending they have grown very little in the last year and every day that passes has seen unique product benefits that they failed to exploit being rolled out by others. Mobile TV lays bare the dilemma facing 3. They are now advertising that service saying mobile TV and clips for everyone.... but its not really... Its a very limited range of Mobile TV provided mainly by a third party appplication that can only be used on certain models of nokia device. Models like the LG U8100 and Nokia 7600 cant even do video streaming!! Compare that with Vodafone's Mobile TV product. 26+ channels available across the entire range of 3G handsets - no if's no buts... every Vodafone customer can get the service when in 3G coverage. This example is in my opinion typical of the difference in thinking between these two operators. One has waited and made sure what they provide is simple and fully available whilst the other has rushed to market with half-baked ideas. The same could be said for the network performance, customer service and other aspects of the 3 UK service. 3 1/2 years on it still looks like the poor relation of the rest. In stores even Virgin Mobile have a much better range of products on show and their 6 million customers are a testement to their successful marketing and simple value for money proposition.

The problem for 3 now is that they have probably reached the point where they just cant throw money at the market for ever. In 3 1/2 years they have managed to gain 3.5 millon customers but at a very considerable cost. 3 did'nt have the luxury of millions of existing customers paying every month to fund their acquisition and HWL have had to sell share of some of its prime assets to keep the 3 business afloat. Even in Italy where 3 Italia have performed much better than in the UK they could not interest investors and had to abandon an IPO.

3 could offer similar deals to T-Mobile and in some cases they provide 12 months line rental + calls with a free handset on a 12 month contract, but that still is'nt making much of an impression as their net additions have been the worst of all of the network operators for over a year. 3 have been caught in a classic pincer movement by the major operators. The hare and tortoise theory I predicted appears to have come to fruition. They sold initially on features like videocalling and technology and that bombed. They then sold on price of inclusive voice calls and when the ARPU started falling shifted the emphisis to inclusive content (VTT Tariffs) which is where they are now and they are being hammered by T-Mobile and 02 who provide much more for less cash. The key 3 strategy is now content sales and whether customers on VTT use the video or not they can claim a high proportion of revenues from non-voice services. Fine if they can get customers but their own stats prove they are not winning many with current propositions.

Lets not forget that most UK customers still use GSM and that over 85% of the market is on those networks. It'll be that way for a long time to come but things are beginning to change with much better 3G handsets becoming available for the big GSM operators to migrate customers onto with confidence.

Are 3 driving the market forward now? Pop into a CPW or a Phones4U and look and see what sort of representation they have. On contarcts you'll be lucky to see 3 handsets to choose from and on pre-pay maybe just one cheapie.

I think it would take a huge reinvestment to get 3 anywhere now in the UK and I dont think HWL now have the stomach for that. The bosses in Hong Kong must be bewildered at the resiliance of 02 and Vodafone who have flourished since 3 launched and be very wary of a revitalised T-Mobile, Orange and Virgin. Add to the above the effect of convergence (I am already considering a mobile deal that provides free broadband and landline calls) and one can see why there now appears to be a lack of commitment by 3 in the UK. They are here, they are treading water I would say but I suspect someone will have to come forward with some lifesaving deal to make a viable future for them.

Just my 2p worth... but having watched this market closely for the last few years I get a gut feeling that the window of opportunity to make inroads into the UK mobile market with a technological advantage has passed. The nightmare is that it now costs more than ever to gain customers who have higher expectations and demands and if you have a weak brand and poor distribution the cost escalates even further. I would not like to bet that 3 UK will now succeed, KPN and NTT DoCoMo both felt the same way over a year ago and unlike me left losing hundreds of millions of pounds. Were they right? I think we will know the answer sooner rather than later... certainly by this time next year.

[Hands0n]

The same could be said for the network performance .......


I just want to pick up on that particular assessment. There are, without doubt, areas of the UK where 3's 3G coverage is marginal-to-nonexistent - precisely as it is with all of the competition. 3 have outsourced the supply of 2G back-fill to their 3G coverage. Outsourcing is not a new phenomenon and within its limitations for mobile networks does provide a level of continuity impossible otherwise.

Performance of 3's 3G network is more than acceptable where it is delivered. There are, of course, areas where that is not the case.

Customer Service - anyone who has read my writings will know that I am not a particular fan of 3's CS. But I have to say that 3 have somewhat led the way with Customer Self Help through their website - they have not met, not nearly, their own aspirations for this. The Indian CS is a total disaster, and 3 will suffer the pain of that until their rid themselves of that particular outsourcing. But to call it a "poor relation" belies the truth of CS as delivered to the UK Customer. This and other forums are legend with writings from the dissatisfied of all the four parent networks. Vodafone, T-Mobile, Orange and O2 all have their share of brickbat cast against them. Reading some reports one can be forgiven for thinking the complaint is against 3, when in fact it isnt at all!

I think that it is entirely premature to consign 3 to the dustbin of historical business failures. They are not even close to that yet. Nor do I expect them to be. Like any venture, they will move through the Champ to Chump cycle as there is a constant jostling for position in the market. 3 have made some marketing clangers for sure - equally they have provided a much needed challenge to the complacency of the incumbent mobile network operators (and, dare I say) their MVNOs.

An increasingly demanding customer base is going to be the challenge for all of the operators. You can only sell so much "Converged Product" (how many Broadband deliveries do the average family want in their household?). In the end the Customer is going to look at price, as always. We are under constant financial pressure to give our money away to all manner of causes - mostly run by the Treasury - and money is getting tighter for the Customer each year (who's salary increase has ever matched the true rate of inflation, rather than the Government-engineered rate?). We are all, steadily, getting poorer - and so luxuries like mobile phones become just that. We may well want and need them, but the pressure to get the price down, or to get more for a given price, increases steadily by the day. That, I contend, is the true challenge to the mobile operators in the UK (at least). How to maintain, or increase, market share in an economy that is steadily weakening at its roots.

I do not expect 3 to be going anywhere too far away from us in the near future.

[hecatae]

They are now advertising that service saying mobile TV and clips for everyone.... but its not really... Its a very limited range of Mobile TV provided mainly by a third party appplication that can only be used on certain models of nokia device.

I hate to be a pedant but you are getting 3's Mobile TV offering confused with the MobiTV application.

3's Mobile TV streaming is on par with Vodafone in good 3G coverage areas.

[Ben]

Three are still offering both then? I guess it's nice to have a choice, but I'd like to see them concentrate on Mobile TV and ditch MobiTV's useless piece of junk completely.

[3GScottishUser]

3 have the following TV Available : Berlin or Bust - FHM - MTV Trax - Paramount Comedy - Nickelodeon - 6 degrees - Vidzone - MTV Snax + Clips from ITV Soaps on a restricted range of handsets. (The offer Mobi TV on a few Nokias too).

Vodafone have: Sky News (live), Sky Sports News (live), Discovery Factual; CNN (live), At the Races (live), Bloomberg (live), The History Channel, National Geographic Channel. Sky One, MTV*, Cartoon Network, Bravo, Livingtv, Nickelodeon, Sky Movies, Discovery Lifestyle; Paramount Comedy Channel (1), The Biography Channel. Fashion TV, Chilli Extreme, Eurosport, UEFA Champions League, and Channel4, GMTV and HBO Mobile. - Available on all Vodafone Live 3G handsts.

I dont think the two services are comparable presently.

[Hands0n]

There are two issues being mixed and muddled here, that being services and content breadth. The former is important and significant to any mobile operator providing TV. Is the carrier service good enough. MobiTV was and is just junkware.

Streaming IPTV services to the handset appear to work much better where the 3G availability is good - and that applies to Vodafone [and anyone else for that matter] as it does to 3.

Content is another matter entirely. It does not matter how good the TV delivery services are, if the content is dull and boring then the Customer will ignore it. Vodafone were first in to licensing the content they deliver, and I suspect that it will be more difficult for any of its rivals to similarly license if there is any exclusivity in the licensing contracts. Vodafone appear to be good at gaining [at least initial] exclusivity.

I do think that if 3 were to have exactly the same content licensed the apparent difference between them and Vodafone in this particular instance would be irrelevant.

So 3, and the others for that matter, will have to pull their socks up and go buy their licenses if Vodafone are not to have the field to themselves.

[3GScottishUser]

Dial-A-Phone seem to have reinstaed 3 for now... but the offres look lame in comparison to others from Telefonica-02 and Orange.

The 3 deals seem to rely on free additional freebies like nanos etc .... srtip out those and look at the total costs and the picture becomes clear.

[Ben]

I think perhaps DAP are targeting a different type of customer - one that doesn't need to read £0/month for 12 months in order to buy. It may well be the case that freebies on contracts sold at higher prices attract better customers than a cashback offer (for example), but the numbers will be greatly reduced. Still, with 3 fighting churn if the offers are as uninspiring as you imply it may well be in 3's best interests.

[3GScottishUser]

I think 3 have made a huge error of judgement with their currrent strategy.

Once you get past the cashback or 1/2 price periods they are charging between £35 and £45 a month on 'mainstream' tariffs. The most popular being promoted now are VTT700 and VTT1100. Fine but I suspect many who sign up will be tempted to shop around as soon as the contract period ends. This will of course create lots of churn!!

At the other end of the market you can get a 3 deal with an LG U8330 or simlilar on a 12 month deal with free phone and full cashback. Just what sort of customers do 3 consider this type of deal will attract? Do they think after 12 months customers buying that deal will be happy to pay £35 a month? Not likely as they will have attracted the most cost concious customers in the UK!!

All in all 3 seem to be the dealer's churn creation tool and one has to wonder how they can change that. T-Mobile and now 02 have driven customers into stores because of the benefits of transparent pricing, Vodafone to a lesser extent with inclusions like Stop the Clock and Passport, Orange are heading down the convergence route with Free 8MB Broadband on £30+ tariffs.

From where I am sitting 3 look very exposed now with nothing available for the 'average' user who wants 200 mins a month and 200 texts and who wants to pay between £20 and £30 a month for their mobile service. I suspect that is a very big market segment they are ignoring. The £30 mark is a benchmark that many I have spoken to are reluctant to cross.... so???

[hecatae]

http://threestore.three.co.uk/planoffers.aspx?tariffid=427

load that in firefox.

choose any phone

click the back arrow and tell me which site it retrieves data from

prophet.dialaphone.co.uk

I'd remove all 3 deals off my company website too if I was the main dealer behind the online threestore.three.co.uk

[Ben]

Heh, that prophet address seems to be some kind of local admin thingy. Lovely.

Very confusing I must say, but it would seem to be proof that Dialaphone are indeed behind threestore.three.co.uk unless anyone can spot any other reason Three would possibly be transferring data from their servers!

[Hands0n]

I don't suppose it is all that surprising that Three have outsourced their web store presence. They need to keep their costs down, and perhaps by just offering DAP a slightly bigger margin they get the best of both worlds. Plus something they can jettison in [financially] better times.