[3GScottishUser]

From Guardian Unlimited (25th May 2006):

Orange responds to TalkTalk with its own 'free' broadband offer

· Move to keep Wanadoo customers after merger
· Vodafone ready to join fight without its own network

Orange is poised to join the "free" broadband revolution as the mobile phone company officially merges with internet service provider Wanadoo next week.
The move, to be announced on Wednesday, follows the introduction of the first "free" broadband service by Carphone Warehouse's TalkTalk residential phone business in April. TalkTalk raised the stakes in the battle for Britain's broadband customers and inquiries from potential customers are understood to be very high.

To try to stop Wanadoo's existing one million broadband and one million dial-up internet-access customers running off to TalkTalk, Orange plans to offer "free" broadband to customers who also take a mobile phone contract. They will also get a bundle of cheap fixed-line calls, including free calls to other Orange customers.

The new broadband service, backed by a huge advertising campaign, still needs the sign-off of Orange's owners France Télécom. But the company has already scheduled a major marketing push to coincide with the launch of the merged Orange/Wanadoo business on June 1, or "O-Day" as Orange has codenamed it. It also remains unclear what customers of Wanadoo who do not want a mobile package will be offered to stop them defecting.
Orange is looking to tie customers who opt for the free broadband offer into long-term contracts. The TalkTalk offer is conditional upon customers signing up for 18 months and Orange is understood to be considering two year-long contracts for its "free" broadband offer. A spokesman for Orange refused to comment.

Customers will not receive their broadband for nothing - they will still be paying a monthly line-rental charge - so any offer designated "free" is likely to produce complaints of misrepresentation from rival internet service providers. There have already been numerous complaints to the Advertising Standards Agency about the TalkTalk product.

The Orange broadband offer relies upon Wanadoo installing its own equipment in BT's local exchanges - a process known as local loop unbundling. Having control of the line allows companies to set their own prices and cross-subsidise "free" broadband. Wanadoo's kit is already in about 200 of BT's exchanges and 500 are planned by the end of the year.

Broadband services are becoming de rigueur among mobile phone companies as they look to increase revenues and strengthen customer retention. The day before the Orange announcement, Vodafone will outline its strategy for competing in the British market for what are known as converged services.

There has been intense speculation that Vodafone is looking to buy a telecoms network or an ISP in order to offer broadband and fixed-line telephone services. The company's shares have been depressed by fears that it will launch itself into the broadband market with just such a deal.

Chief executive Arun Sarin, however, is expected to tell the City on Tuesday that the company does not need to buy a network to offer these services. For corporate customers who want to use Vodafone for fixed-line calls and internet access as well as mobile, it can lease network capacity and access from other players - not least BT, which already uses Vodafone's network to run its fledgling mobile service.

In the residential broadband and telephony market, high-speed wireless access technologies such as 3G could be used to provide broadband. Rather than spending hundreds of millions buying up a network and getting involved in local loop unbundling, Vodafone could spend a fraction of that cash strengthening its existing network and deliver broadband.


http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1782245,00.html

[Hands0n]

In the residential broadband and telephony market, high-speed wireless access technologies such as 3G could be used to provide broadband. Rather than spending hundreds of millions buying up a network and getting involved in local loop unbundling, Vodafone could spend a fraction of that cash strengthening its existing network and deliver broadband.



How terriffic would that be then, having Vodafone go it bravely with a 3G-only broadband offering. There is desktop router product such as the Linksys WRT54G3G Wireless-G Router (http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk/product.asp?pr=WRT54G3G) in the market that will use the Vodafone Data Card (HSDPA or otherwise) to create a traditional LAN/WLAN in the home or SOHO. As the article suggests, it would cost a fraction of the alternative of buying up a going concern.

Something like that would have a major appeal to those who live in rented accomodation and who move frequently each year or so. Just pick up the kit and move it without further ado and all the hassle that typically accompanies ADSL/Cable.

I'd even seriously consider replacing my Telewest cable broadband with such an offering, if the price was right - and that means NOT at a premium just because it is wireless. Vodafone have a chance at getting this right first time! If they don't perhaps T-Mobile will step in.

[3g-g]

I'd even seriously consider replacing my Telewest cable broadband with such an offering, if the price was right - and that means NOT at a premium just because it is wireless. Vodafone have a chance at getting this right first time! If they don't perhaps T-Mobile will step in.

This is the thing. If Voda were to try and place a similar product using their exsisting 3G network the price is going to have to be right, that means a flat fee and the possibility of no download caps... I just can't see how they'd do it. IMO the only way O2/T-Mob/Voda & 3 will compete with Orange on this offer is to lease the space from other ISPs. The costs of running it on their UMTS network will be too much. However as you pointed out nicely Hands0n, a service, in for example, student halls, where you can just move about without the tie to a BT or LLU line would certainly be a nice niche to fill!

[Hands0n]

What do you reckon the spoiler is then 3g-g? Is it a technical or a financial issue that would likely prevent any mobop offering such a package? I'd have thought that with HSDPA and increased transmitter deployment the actual 3G capacity will increase to the level where offering a wireless rival to fixed line broadband becomes completely practical.

[3g-g]

What do you reckon the spoiler is then 3g-g? Is it a technical or a financial issue that would likely prevent any mobop offering such a package? I'd have thought that with HSDPA and increased transmitter deployment the actual 3G capacity will increase to the level where offering a wireless rival to fixed line broadband becomes completely practical.

Techncial yes, and also the stigma of more transmitters. There's the capacity in the back end of the networks, STM4s all over the shop, but getting it to the punter is the problem. HSDPA will offer high speeds, however that part of the network will still be used to carry normal voice also. On a broadband connection what's the ratio? 50:1 or something? At the moment the 2Mbit circuit that supplies nearly every cell site in the UK (on all networks) is maxed out on 15/17 people (on UMTS data that is), and you're only getting 128/384k. HSDPA will be bursty, however it's got voice, text, MMS to deal with as well as the others that want their 1.8Mbit. That's why the ops charge through the roof, once one person takes all that capacity they've got to make sure they're making the pennies!

There'll be offers on 3G networks to keep you away from WiFi/fixed line, however the QoS will be different and I imagine the caps will be much smaller, as well as the speeds! It's going to have to go Operator Hotspots (a la T-mob, with unlimited browsing via WiFi), with HSDPA coverage in city centres and old stylee UMTS on the outskirts.

[3GScottishUser]

The posters are up now.... Bye Bye Wanadoo...

The future's bright.... the future's Orange Broadband - allegedly!!!

[etccarmageddon]

free broadband if you sign up for an 18month mobile contract and pay £30+ a month plus around £10 for the ADSL line rental. plus there's a 2gig cap! lmao

pants.

[3g-g]

free broadband if you sign up for an 18month mobile contract and pay £30+ a month plus around £10 for the ADSL line rental. plus there's a 2gig cap! lmao

pants.

The caps a bit of a pest I agree, but the £10 ADSL line rental is nothing to do with Orange, that's what every ADSL cusomter on any ISP has to pay to BT for the telephone line, that's like saying well, £19.99 for AOL and then £10 added on to rent the line, no-one thinks like that!

£10 to BT, then £20/25 to your ISP with your £30 mobile subscription on top (excluding calls) thats minimum of £60/65 a month.

If you're not on the net that much, don't download movies and music, then your £10 BT line rental, £30 to Orange for your mobile and you get Broadband for no extra cost? What's pants about that? In fact, as part of Orange's TRY you can get it free for a month and if you don't like it you can just cancel and send the modem back! Seems alright to me! :)

[Ben]

Yup, not too shabby at all, I think it's a pretty good deal - particularly for a light user.

Hell, £30/month doesn't even net you a free phone a lot of the time - 18 months of freebie broadband is nothing to be sniffed at.

As always, though, it's baby steps.

[Hands0n]

I hate to sound anti-Orange but I have to agree that it is all a bit "pants", even accepting some of the pro-points above.

Why such a low cap for an ADSL connection? Are they expecting a huge flood of new Orange business that will saturate Wanadoo's bandwidth? Or that will impact upon Wanadoo's incumbent customers?

It does rather [to me] have a malodorous (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=malodorous) :p quality to it. Baby steps indeed, and we know what babies produce a lot of in their early days :D

[etccarmageddon]

I see it as pants because you need to spend £30 a month on your mobile contract but still have a crap 'usage allowance' or whatever they call it! It's good if you already have a BT line and a £30 monthly contract and hardly use the net otherwise I wouldn't be too excited over it.

On top of that I wouldnt touch (former) Wanadoo broadband with a barge pole - they left my friend without ADSL for months due to their mass migration to LLU and even lied to her that it was a BT line fault. I advised otherwise and when she confronted them and had links to arcticles so they couldn't deny it, they had to admit all along it wasn't the line at fault. Despite telling her they'd ordered BT to investigate and all sorts of lies.