[crowfield99]

Hi Guys,

Never been on O2 3G before, I know they have good 2G Coverage but what is 3G Like if you can get it?

Would you say it would be a good idea to change from Orange ?

[3GScottishUser]

02 dont have as much 3G coverage as Orange or Vodafone as yet. Its mostly available in cities and near airports etc. I have a very good 02 signal where i stay and the speed is impressive. Calls are reliable and seamless (like all the big 4) and I have no complaints really apart form videocalling which can sometimes be ropey!

[getti]

I am so tempted to get a Samsung Z320i right now which is 3G and I-Mode and also availale on PAYG for £229.99 with £20 credit

[Ben]

The phone itself looks quite nice, but lets face it - imode is expensive and far too late to be revolutionary, and £229.99 is a lot of money for the handset in question IMHO :\

[crowfield99]

I feel 02 seems to lack behind for some reason, I agree IMode is not much to dance about right now really. 02 could have done a better job themselves, and made a better portal than they have already got. That way they could have called it 02 Active instead of iMode.

[Hands0n]

Will be finding out soon enough :D The good lady wants to upgrade (finally) from an old Nokia 33-something (really!!!) and I've managed to talk her into taking the 3G plunge.

She won't change contract tariff (Online 100 - 100 x-net mins, 500 txt, 1Mb browse) so is limited to the Sony Ericsson K600i which is a bit old hat by now, but it is nonetheless quite a capabable compact 3G unit. She'll use it for the usual voice and text stuff, of course. Also for a bit of Videocalling occasionally, which at O2's normal voice rates is a bargain ("Video calling included in free minutes on all pay monthly video call phones").

I did try and blag the Z320i out of O2's CS but they were having none of that unless we took up an 18-month contract. So that was a "No" then.

Taking a look around the area, there are a number of distinct O2 3G masts accompanying the other 3G operators, so the anticipation is that O2's 3G in North Kent is going to be somewhat up to the other mobops. But thats the thing, it will vary from area/region depending on how the mobop did its roll out plans.

To give you my answer your closing question about Orange - I left the big O to get my 3G from 3 and Vodafone. I was disappointed with Orange's range of 3G handsets, and their lacklustre tariffs. I wasn't being inspired to stay with them. The [3G] future just didn't seem to be bright at the turn of the year.

So, what did you do in the end?

[Hands0n]

Okay, here we go :)

The good woman's SE K600i arrived this morning and I gave it the full day to charge up before she returned home. The O2 CS (hours of operation 8am to 8pm !!!!!) said that it would take 2 to 24 hours for the mobile number to switch to the 3G USIM. Hint, turn off the old phone/SIM and periodically try switching on the new phone/USIM, as soon as the registration kicks in it will be picked up by the handset re-registering to the network. It took 1hr 45mins for us.

The initial connection was 2G only - which is odd as we have an O2 3G mast in sight of the house, not more than 300M away. Voice calls and text worked as expected, clear and quick enough. Then without any further intervention the 3G signal popped up on the handset - time for a Videocall, that worked just fine.

A bit of 3G browsing on the handset was tried on the O2 Active portal. This was okay, not as fast as Vodafone Live! and probably more on a par with the speeds I am used to seeing on 3's portal.

I have observed that the 3G signal at the furthest point of the front room away from the O2 3G mast results in the 3G signal becoming intermittent. Moving closer to the front windows (all of 15ft I'd say) results in a more stable 3G signal - it persisted for the rest of the time we were playing around with the handset. Surely their 3G signal can't be that weak - the co-located Vodafone mast [by comparison] belts out a solid 3G signal anwhere in the house.

But as it goes, she's happy with the handset and the new capabilities. Using the handset out and about will be the acid test for O2's 3G. Her learning curve will include using things like MMS for photo and video, the occasional Videocall, and using the O2 Active portal for browsing.

To answer the opening questions;
Whats O2's 3G like - same as the others where it is available, does what it says on the packet. The flip back to 2G is seamless, as is the return to 3G.

Would it be a good idea to change from Orange? That really has to be a matter of personal choice. For my part, I left Orange for a number of 3G-related reasons, mainly dissatisfaction with (a) their upgrade policy, (b) the poor range of handsets, (c) 2G problems being carried over to 3G (i.e. calls hitting voicemail without ringing the handset when full signal strength is apparent) to name but three.

[Hands0n]

Further observations on O2's 3G vs 2G where I am situated.

As I said in the previous posting I live within sight of an O2 3G mast, it is no more than 300M away, I'd estimate. I do not know where the nearest O2 2G mast is, but judging by the number of bars on the handset's display it can't be too far away.

The result is that the K600i is almost constantly in 2G mode, and will not switch to 3G automatically. So, if we want to use anthing on 3G we have to manually select the 3G network and do whatever we want to quickly enough before the handset re-acquires the 2G network. What a chore!!

The K600i has menu options to allow the phone to operate in 2G/3G or 2G only, but unfortunately it cannot be made to accept only 3G networks (an oversight, or perhaps by intention). Either way, access to O2's 3G network is rendered arbitrary and unrealiable if there is any evidence of a 2G network in the vicinity.

I have just spent several minutes on to the O2 Customer Service desk who, to my utter bemusement, suggested that this is quite an acceptable state of network behavior! Even after going away to ask around the response from elsewhere in the CS area the reply was that I should expect not to be able to get a 3G signal even when standing facing the mast 200M away! As a certain McEnroe may have once said "You cannot be serious!"

Ever keen to get rid of me, the CS rep suggested that I call their Retentions team - great, option 4 on their menu tells you to call their CS and then cuts you off - lol.

I have resorted to sending them an email from their contact pages, whether or not they respond is to be seen. If they do I'll pop the result up on here.

So, unless evidence to the contrary appears, this appears to be the nub of the situation - O2's 3G must be considered so totally unrealiable against their 2G that even when standing within 200M of their transmitter you should not anticipate being able to use the 3G network.

NB: Within 20M of the O2 3G mast is a Vodafone 3G mast. As I sit here with the O2 K600i on the coffee table adjacent to my Vodafone W900i I observe that the K600i is firmly locked to 2G and the W900i is firmly locked to 3G.

[getti]

I am buying the Samsung Z320i which is the i-mode and 3G phone on PAYG tomorrow afternoon. Will only get 3G coverage for now but i am due to get full 3G all around my area very soon because torquay is a real O2 area more than other networks.

Of course i will report my findings and do a review on it

[3g-g]

The result is that the K600i is almost constantly in 2G mode, and will not switch to 3G automatically. So, if we want to use anthing on 3G we have to manually select the 3G network and do whatever we want to quickly enough before the handset re-acquires the 2G network. What a chore!!

......

So, unless evidence to the contrary appears, this appears to be the nub of the situation - O2's 3G must be considered so totally unrealiable against their 2G that even when standing within 200M of their transmitter you should not anticipate being able to use the 3G network.

NB: Within 20M of the O2 3G mast is a Vodafone 3G mast. As I sit here with the O2 K600i on the coffee table adjacent to my Vodafone W900i I observe that the K600i is firmly locked to 2G and the W900i is firmly locked to 3G.

I'm afraid to say I don't think it's O2's 3G network at fault, more the Sony Ericsson. I bought the wife the exact same handset on Orange and it's the worst for reception I've ever had. In fact, I've had this conversation with Ben before about handset RX quality, and that especially of the SE series, well, the earlier ones anyway. It's got to the point I'm going to replace the handset it's that bad, and I'm no more than a mile from 4 (no less) 3G enablesd sites! I can sit anywhere in my house with the 6680 and I've full 3G coverage, however with the K600i in the same places I'm lucky to see 2 bars in both 3G and 2G. Very poor handset.

[getti]

Funny you should say that, i have had problems with signal on the Z1010 and the T610 from Sony Ericsson.

Only the W900i was decent but it was up and down every second where as on other manufacturers signal stayed more constant

[3g-g]

Yeah, the Z1010 was the first time i noticed it, such dire coverage quality compared to all the other 3G handsets I had, using the field test SW on the 6680 you can see the RX signal level, so I know the quality and quatity in my area is tip-top (I of all people am aware of what's serving the house!). The receive quality, in both signal levels and call quality is decidedly below average, to the point I'd of said it could have a extremely bad effect on the public perception of the 3G networks. I'd like to see O2, Orange, Three and Vodafone swiftly dump this, and the network equivalents they run with.

[Ben]

Funny you should say that, i have had problems with signal on the Z1010 and the T610 from Sony Ericsson.

Only the W900i was decent but it was up and down every second where as on other manufacturers signal stayed more constant
You know, the W900i had made me forget about the signal woes of the Z1010 and T610 - both of which I own. Thankfully the W900i does seem to perform reasonably well, though it's still not Nokia. Having never owned the K600i it hadn't occurred to me that it could be of the shoddy SE generation.

If I remember correctly I commented on how much better Orange 3G was after I switched from the Z1010 to the Nokia 6680. It's scary to think that almost a year has gone by since then!

[Hands0n]

Likewise my [Vodafone] SE W900i is able to hold 3G rock solid where there is such a signal in evidence.

I hadn't considered it being the K600i as I have a friend in the area who has one on the 3 network and that works faultlessly in 3G also - otherwise one [reasonably?] could expect it to drop back to 3's 2G backup being provided by O2, which it does not. If it were a software or other design fault in the K600i I would expect 3 to have no control over which generation network it falls back/forward to - or am I being a tad too logical here :D

In observing the signal strength indicators on the K600i (I fully accept these are not going to be as accurate as 3g-g's tools of course) I can see that the 2G signal is stronger than the 3G one when manually selecting between the two networks. Is the SE K600i, then, making an arbitrary decision to lock on to the stronger, even though the 3G is evident?

Curioser and curioser, once outside the house and with "clear air" between the K600i and the transmitter it will lock on to the 3G signal. Also, and this did amuse me, indoors at the front of my house, if I hold the phone in my right hand and just by the window I get 3G - move the phone to my left hand and away from the window (there is now a brick wall betwixt phone and mast) the handset falls back to 2G, and I promise you my arms are not that long!!! LOL

[getti]

even scarier is the fact in 3 days time (3/3/06), 3G will have been live for 3 years already!!!

I am in the middle of a writeup looking back at 3G and compare the NEC E808, Moto A835 and Nokia 6280 to show how far 3G has come in the 3yrs its been out

[getti]

Likewise my [Vodafone] SE W900i is able to hold 3G rock solid where there is such a signal in evidence.

I hadn't considered it being the K600i as I have a friend in the area who has one on the 3 network and that works faultlessly in 3G also - otherwise one [reasonably?] could expect it to drop back to 3's 2G backup being provided by O2, which it does not. If it were a software or other design fault in the K600i I would expect 3 to have no control over which generation network it falls back/forward to - or am I being a tad too logical here :D

In observing the signal strength indicators on the K600i (I fully accept these are not going to be as accurate as 3g-g's tools of course) I can see that the 2G signal is stronger than the 3G one when manually selecting between the two networks. Is the SE K600i, then, making an arbitrary decision to lock on to the stronger, even though the 3G is evident?

Curioser and curioser, once outside the house and with "clear air" between the K600i and the transmitter it will lock on to the 3G signal. Also, and this did amuse me, indoors at the front of my house, if I hold the phone in my right hand and just by the window I get 3G - move the phone to my left hand and away from the window (there is now a brick wall betwixt phone and mast) the handset falls back to 2G, and I promise you my arms are not that long!!! LOL

Indoor coverage is never as good as outdoor because there are so many things around you. Same is with WiFi, if you have a wifi connection outside it will be stronger than if you were inside.

[Hands0n]

I accept that completely of course - until I try the coffee table test :D The problem at the moment is identifying the constant, is it the handset or the local air interface?



NB: Within 20M of the O2 3G mast is a Vodafone 3G mast. As I sit here with the O2 K600i on the coffee table adjacent to my Vodafone W900i I observe that the K600i is firmly locked to [O2] 2G and the W900i is firmly locked to [Voda] 3G


I'm going to have to do some USIM swapping between these two and see if the "fault" carries across or remains constant. If it moves with the USIM the chances are that O2's local signal could be at fault. If the it stays with the K600i (with the Vodafone USIM) then it is completely down to the handset in this instance. Place yer bets :D

[getti]

I am now an official O2 3G customer with a PAYG Z320i. VERY nice looking phone and feels very strong...... best of all no dust under the screen!.

Was given £20 free credit also and i can get 3 months free Calls 50 Bolt-On for 50 x-net calls anytime of the day, oh and 300 free anytime texts.

i-mode is free for 1st month (upto 5mb) and i-mail (including pics) is free until the end of June.

[Ben]

Good good, let us know how you get on, and what their 3G is like should you ever stumble upon somewhere with coverage :p

[getti]

Well i know one of the guys in the shop and he showed me an email saying torquay is gettng full 3G coverage in March... and yes thats March 2006 :p

Not long to wait!

[3g-g]

...
I'm going to have to do some USIM swapping between these two and see if the "fault" carries across or remains constant. If it moves with the USIM the chances are that O2's local signal could be at fault. If the it stays with the K600i (with the Vodafone USIM) then it is completely down to the handset in this instance. Place yer bets :D

The only thing about this type of testing, although a fair-ish enough way to see how the phone responds, is the way the two networks are set up. The antennas of both O2 and Vodafone may be facing in different directions from where you're situated at home, as well as the downtilt settings of the relevant networks antenna set ups. A degree or two's difference can mean hundreds of meters of differenence on the ground in terms of blank spots for the user.

[Hands0n]

Its great having a mast climber on the team :) (judging by some of yer compo photos!) yer wouldn't get me up one of those things :eek:

I can see what you are saying, and of course I cant really perform the definitive test of a cell. I think that this Sunday morning is going to see the crazy bloke from my road wandering aroudn waving his arms and a pair of handsets in the air . If I don't get arrested by one of Kents finest I'll report back :D

[getti]

Well what can i say... my Z320i lasted me 3 days and 1 of them it was boxed up.

Nice phone, crap camera for 1.3 megapixels and i-mode is very fast over 2G. However when i started to think about it i realised i had made a mistake getting it.

I mean i want a phone for 3G use but O2 only have something like 35% coverage so i would have been better off getting a 2G phone with more features.

So today it went back to O2 and a refund was put on my card for £229.99, i walked 10 mins up the road to Argos and for £79.99 i got a Motorola E770v on Vodafone 3G PAYG and so far its great. Looks VERY nice and will last me until the N80 is out which i am already saving for. Then i can use my SIM in the N80 and people will still have my number and i will still have my content and services available but on a N80.

Very pleased i made the switch to Voda. 25 mins walk home and i had on Paramount watching The Comedy Store and it only buffered once, quality was REALLY GOOD and clear. Free for 30 days so i aint complaning but for £10 a month you can get all the stations which pi$$es all over the crap Orange and 3 have with MobiTV

[Hands0n]

Wow! That didn't last very long :D O2's 3G coverage is not great at present, they are installing masts all over the place, but they are, to be fair, some two years behind 3 in terms of available deployment of the 3G signal. This is certainly something that anyone buying into 3G has to consider seriously before splashing out the cash.

Vodafone are ahead of the game in many places, it would appear. I find the 3G availability is close to 3's in my North Kent area - but it is not as uniform regardless of Vodafone's coverage map.

My short experience of Vodafone's TV was delightful, it did what it said on the packet, flawlessly. I would subscribe to the tenner-a-month for everything if I spent more time watching, which I dont. Also, while their content is rather good in that respect I'd remind folk about Vodafone's "Stop The Clock" - pay for the first 3 minutes and get the next 57 free, evenings and weekends (availability times differ between PAYT and Contract). Its that good that I am having very great difficulty taking a serious bite into my Contract minutes. I really may have to reduce them when my initial 6 months of 18 is up!

[getti]

For the £35 i was spending a month on 3 i can get 500 sms a month and 200 mins on PAYG with packs but then i must also remember if i phone someone on the weekend for an hour i will still have 197 mins free in the pack because of STC.

Its also great when you go away as if i have a voice pack on my number and i go abroad once i pay 75p for the connection the rest of the call comes out of the pack free so it can save a fortune!.

I am planning on going to New York in November and by then Skype will have their Series 60 app for download. Pair that with the N80 i will own and it will be great. The states are full of free wireless hotspots